To not force DS to sleep at his dad's?

[HolaLola]

Split up with XDP almost five years ago when DS was three, due to ex's anger and controlling behaviour. Since then, DS has always slept at his dad's one weeknight and one weekend night.
For about the last 15 months, DS has become more and more distressed about sleeping at his dad's. I tried numerous coping strategies for him, but nothing seemed to really help. Eventually, I gave myself a shake and realised I was putting my son through a whole load of upset and stress because I was still so worried/scared about how my ex would react if I said he wasn't coming. We still do the weekday sleepover and a whole day at the weekend, but I said I want to pause the weekend sleepover to give DS a break from the stress of it and that we'll pick it up again when DS is ready.
It's been 4 weeks and it's like a weight has been lifted for DS. He's so much happier, it's such a relief to see. I feel ashamed of myself for letting it go on so long when I should have acted on what he was saying so much sooner. However, ex is now saying it's been long enough and he wants the weekend sleepovers to start again. I've said DS isn't ready yet and that going backwards and forwards this quickly is more disruptive than anything. AIBU to think that I need to continue to fight DS's corner here and put his needs above ex's?

Yes. Is he more concerned about the agreement or your child's changing needs?

I meant yanbu!

He is of the mindset that "we're the parents, we tell DS what happens". Whereas I think we need to listen to DS and give him a say in what the arrangements are, especially as he's getting so upset about it I think ex thinks that this is just a phase and DS will get over it, but I think over a year is more than a phase

Yanbu. I had a similar situation and can understand how hard it is but also seeing the child so much happier shows it has to be led by them. If the other parent is bothered they'll put the child first and let it gradually be built up. Undfortunatly for my dc the other parent wanted it their way or no way so literally walked away from them... no birthday, Christmas cards or anything for 2 years now. All because my dc didn't want to sleep over (at an unknown house where she wasn't allowed to come out of the bedroom unless told so... for meals etc but hen straight back to the room!)
You know your dc... be guided my him and his happiness

@lifestooshortandsoami That's awful, how sad for your DC. It's a horrible situation. Obviously I get why ex is upset, but I'm far more concerned about DS and how he feels. You're right - the relief at seeing my son so much happier is proof to me that I've done the right thing. I'm just so worried that ex is going to insist he goes back and that DS is distressed all over again.

@HolaLola it is a horrible sad situation. It's hard for all involved but I think when they're little it's hard having to stay away from where they feel safe. Hopefully if your ex gives him time then he'll feel more settled and more confident to then start sleeping over again? I'd just keep reinforcing that it won't be forever but if ex helps support it then it should work again in the future?

Has your DS said why he is so upset about going?

Thanks, lifestooshort. That's the tactic I want to take, but ex thinks we need to just continue as we have been doing - ie forcing him to go. My gut and my whole body tells me this is the wrong thing to do for my son, but my ex is very insistent and I guess the truth of it is is that I still feel anxious that he can control what happens.
@overandunder9, my DS is a homebird and likes to be in his own bed. I totally get it! He says he doesn't feel safe at his dad's. I think that's just because we have very different parenting styles. His dad is very strict and shouty. Which makes me feel sick. I absolutely don't think he isn't safe there, but I can understand why he doesn't like it. Ex obvs doesn't want to hear this.
I suppose what I'm worried about is... is there anything ex can do here to force DS to stay? Do I get final decision, being resident parent and main carer? And basically being DS's voice in this situation??

If a child says that they don’t feel safe, there must be a reason for it. Until your ex knows that your DS feels like this, understands it and changes his behaviour, I would doubt things will change, sadly.

Sorry sent too soon....

I don’t know about the legality regarding forcing him to stay, but keep being your DS’s voice if he’s unable to say it for himself.

I’m in a similar situation OP. I have three DC with my exh and he only tends to have them one night a week, sometimes won’t bother some weeks if he has ‘better’ things to do . He’s a dick. My DC hate going most of the time, middle DC particularly becomes distressed. He moved in with GF about a month after we split (5 years ago) and she has two DC, they live in a cramped two bedroom house so five children in one small bedroom. Just not appropriate now her eldest son is almost eleven so will be in the throes of puberty soon. DDs have to sleep on a blow up mattress .

Anyway, I feel torn too. Don’t want them to stop seeing their Dad but he will not compromise on day only visits especially now we live all of 30 miles away. It’s a tough situation and I do think children’s voices should be heard and count for something. Sadly, they don’t in court until they reach a certain age. At least this is what I’ve been told.

You absolutely need to listen to your DS but your ex can force it by simply not handing your son back over at the weekend.
I think you need to be strict about it, say he won’t sleep over and he’s not happy to do so and cross the bridge of him not handing him back if it happens

I have a friend whose ex was given every other weekend for contact. The child in question had serious separation anxiety from his mum. Didn't matter a jot to the dad, it was his 'right' so he was taking him. Every other weekend and for weeks at holiday times. The child was pre school when it started and was completely traumatised. The ex lived near enough to easily drop home at night and take him for the day times. But no, all about him and his selfish needs. It's pathetic.
My friend was terrified her ex would apply for full custody and she would lose him altogether so was afraid to fight it.
I don't know the answer but I really feel for you and think you are doing the right thing. This went on for years for my friend until her child grew up.

Thanks for your replies. It's so sad to read about these horrible situations that we find ourselves and our DCs in.
Sorry, on phone so can't see to tag, but PP who said it being all about the dad's 'needs' and 'his rights' is exactly what's going on here. My ex won't listen to me saying that persevering with the sleepovers is detrimental to DS's mental health and sense of security - he literally doesn't believe in the concept of mental well-being.
I don't think he'd refuse to hand him over, but I can't predict his way of thinking, so yes, I worry about that.
Thank you for the reassurance that I'm doing the right thing for my DS; it helps a lot.

Yanbu

Forcing him to go now is going to lead to an unhappy boy who could go NC when he is old enough to realize that a judge would let him choose.

Your method is the best for the father-son relationship long-term as well as yours. Your son will appreciate you advocating for him and there's a chance that he'll want overnights in future. Ignoring his feelings is cruel and the daytime contact only compromise is more than fair.

My ex is like yours and thinks that our kids should do as he says. #1 has been NC for 2 years, #2 is considering NC while #3 is so indifferent to his Dad that he didn't realize that his Dad didn't bother to turn up for contact today.

Thank you @goldengummybear, your post really hits home. You're absolutely right that ignoring my son's feelings would be cruel. I can't allow that and I'm ashamed that I didn't do the right thing for him sooner.
My son has already told me when he's been upset about going that he wouldn't care if he didn't see his dad again. I don't think he means that, but the fact that he would even say it says a lot.

If you don’t stick up for him it could also lead to him not talking things through in the future that he would need adult assistance with and could feel that he can’t speak to you as you don’t listen to his wishes.
I’m saying this like it’s easy, it not. I was a child forced into seeing a parent I didn’t want to. I’m NC with that parent now and I now understand why I was forced but at the time it didn’t really mean anything to me.

Don’t go beating yourself up for what has happened. You are dealing with it now and that’s how it needs to be. I’m not sure what age that judges will listen to a child’s needs but it’s worth looking into to see if you can get the current arrangements amended and your son can tell the courts what he wants. Like others have said, this could actually help your sons relationship with his dad going forwards and it could be that when he knows he has the option and he will be listened to that he is more happy to stay over in the future

Don't be too hard on yourself.

It's hard to know if they have a bad experience like a crappy day at their Dad's whether it's a one-off thing or something seriously wrong. Their lives and friendships can be so up and down- one day they are going to live with their friend when they are adults and the next day they've had an argument and never talking to them etc.

I also understand how as a RP you don't want to be painted as an ex who keeps the kids away from the NRP. It's a stereotype that has certainly fucked up my boundaries with ex.

I think that it's important to keep talking. Let your ds talk through his complicated feelings about his Dad - it's hard work not liking someone sometimes but also loving them at other times. Human relationships are complicated with ups and downs and it's a shame that your ex can't put your son first and act like the stabilizing influence that you clearly are.

Thanks, lord, I totally agree that my son needs to know he can absolutely trust me. I know that this is the right thing to do for him. The difficulty is that my ex refuses to see the effect that this is having on DS and completely dismisses reasoning like that put forward by you and other PPs. He's impossible to communicate with and is used to shouting until he gets his own way. So although I'm (now) very confident that my decision is right for DS and, as you say, for relationships in the future, I feel like all of that will just be trampled on when I try to discuss it again with ex.
My friend had the same experience as you when she was a child - forced to see a parent she didn't want to and she's told me how much she hated it too

Goldengummybear, yes - sometimes I think I'm overthinking it when he comes home from his dad's clearly having had a good time. But then he would wake up on a day he was due to sleep over and literally be in tears about it as soon as he woke up and for the whole day. And he'd plead with me not to send him. It's so hard to be sure about what's going on.

I think the fact is that he enjoys spending time with his dad, but only with the pressure of an overnight removed. Which I think is fine and understandable and perfectly acceptable, but ex thinks differently.

Yes, you're right, not wanting to be that RP who makes contact difficult is definitely a concern, and I'd always hoped that ex and I would be able to maintain a civil relationship. That's definitely had an effect on how I've dealt with things in the past.

Please don't make your son stay over, he is clearly terrified, how horrible for a child living with that fear each week as the day draws near.

Have you gone through the courts to agree access etc? can you go back and put your case (not sure how it works so sorry if l am wide of the mark)I culdn' lown despite a bullying ex partner and l am sure you don't want to either op..

So he still sleeps there's on a weeknight? What's the difference on a weekend?

I wouldn't take things legal as in my experience contact changes several times as the child grows up. Sometimes it's unavoidable like RP working more but other times it's because the child needs/wants more time with NRP.

A legal agreement suggests that ds will never go overnight at weekends when it sounds like OP is fine to reinstate them again if ds becomes more comfortable with the idea.

Yes, he still has a overnight stay during the week. DS seems to be ok with one night a week, it's just what he can handle. I think it's also easier for him as he hasn't been with me all day before being dropped off.

No, we've never had a legal agreement, just worked things out according to work patterns etc.

It's a tough position to be in. My DS used to cry at the thought of staying overnight with my ex. As soon as I started standing up for DS I was accused of dictating and alienating him.
I explained he was fine going up from morning to bedtime but just wanted his own bed. We eventually went to court and judge made it clear I was not dictating in any way, they spoke to my son who was 9 at the time and ruled he shouldn't have to stay if it was upsetting him so much. The judge also said if he was going to keep forcing him to stay it could back fire and he might start refusing to go up at all if the thought he couldn't come home. Hopefully your ex realises this and puts your DS first as he's the most important one.