AIBU not to pay the cleaners for this week?

[Miha17]

We got cleaners coming in every Sat at 12pm. It’s in fact a couple where DH is quite disabled physically and comes with his wife for a bit of exercise and helps her with communication too. She barely speaks any English. So in fact she is doing the cleaning whereas he is helping a little with surfaces and a bit of company. We pay them £15/h which I think it’s a good rate and they do 2 hours. We also pay them a bonus of £30 at Xmas and if we cancel the cleaning (let’s say due to having builders around) we pay them that week too without them having to to any extra for it.

Now, today we asked in the morning if they can come any other day due to having a sick toddler. She’s been very poorly with fever and on strong antibiotics and we had a rough night. We can’t be in the house when they do cleaning as it’s not much space and also we didn’t get a chance to do the pre-tidy up. They texted back saying they can’t do any other day or time, so they’ll come next Sat. My DH thinks we should pay them for this week too as it’s not their fault. I’m very surprised that they didn’t take any alternatives as we very rarely asked them to reschedule, whereas they do it every couples of months and we were always flexible, every single time, despite having a baby (I.e. they’ll text saying they forgot the keys and went back home, can they come next day...or he has some appointment, can they come an hour later etc., usually at the last minute ..etc). AIBU to think that they should not be paid for this week?

Quite right, Heronymous.

(great username btw)

I don't need to pay if I cancel (with reasonable notice); and my cleaner doesn't expect me to pay if she does the same - the give and take means neither of us gets pissy if (like recently) her son was sick and she had to cancel same day.

If it were me I'd probably not pay, with my cleaner's agreement, but then again she's so flexible she'd probably be happy to come another day anyway.

I used to own a cleaning business. In this case I would not have charged you. You didn't cancel, you asked to rearrange. They couldn't take an rearranged date (as you have done for them) so I think you shouldn't pay. However I valued my reputation above money so maybe I'm skewed.

I also didn't charge the client if they were on holiday as long as I had notice. It's easy to fill in their spot with one off/deep cleans for other/new clients

We always pays them our holiday

I don’t see how this is any different on the basis they kept todays slot available for you? As such they lost other work.

If anything, this surely means you do morally owe them for today?

Another 'you cancelled so you pay'

You can't expect them to just reschedule st short notice. They may have other clients, family plans, who knows.

I think you’re right to expect some give & take OP - sounds like you have a flexible arrangement and that needs to work both ways.

If the schedule was rigid, neither of you ever deviated and they set their clock by you, fair enough, but it doesn’t seem the case.

Have they asked or expected payment, by the way? If not, I wouldn’t assume it was expected. You can always offer additional hours next time to make up the shortfall if they want it.

Tbh you are coming across as a bit Lady Bountiful feeling irked as the peasants aren't grateful enough

I totally agree with this. The attitude isn't pleasant OP.

Also paying for holidays is, imo, a basic responsibility of an employer, not some manifestation of your amazing generosity.

I understand your consternation at the apparant lack of flexibility on their side. IT seems that you are feeling that you have been generous and accommodating of their needs; and whilst you don't have a formal contract, you have an ongoing relationship of trust and some mutuality could therefore be reasonably assumed/expected.
Sadly for you this does not seem to be the case and the cleaning couple obviously view things differently.
In your place, I would pay them and on any future occasion where they request flexibility, grant it only if it is not causing you inconvenience. But dont withold flexibility to prove a point, as you will do yourself out of a clean!
IT sounds that fundamentally you would feel happiest in a cleaning relationship with more mutually, perhaps if your cleaners had even acknowledged your flexibility, and thanked you for the holiday pay etc and expressed gratitude you might feel happier.
Perhaps you might find a new cleaner who would be more flexible and appreciative. I would ask what the quality of their cleaning is too, as if you are happy with that, it might then be a case of readjusting your perception of your relationship, a little more detachment?
Wish you the best.

As almost everyone has said, you should pay them.

I don't think you have any right to expect them to be flexible - it's nice if they are, but it shouldn't be an expectation. If they want to change the day and time, and it's all right with you, you should accommodate them. If it isn't convenient for you, then you miss your cleaner that week - they offered you an alternative slot.

If you are paying £30 for two hours cleaning and paying for a pension etc, then that seems fair. If you are paying £60 a week, that sounds a lot. I wouldn't use an agency if I could find someone personally recommended, but if you do, you've a better chance of a replacement if your cleaner cancels at short notice.

But agency or not, you cancel at short notice, you pay.

You cancelled at short notice so you pay.

If you don’t want to be flexible when they ask then just say no. If it annoys you so much then find another cleaner.

Hope your toddler gets well soon

I had similar last week when my daughter was vomiting- I was happy for her to come but wanted to let her know as I wouldn't want to go to a sick house. I'm not expected to pay but will her 50% extra next time she comes.

Ive cancelled my cleaner on a couple of occassions & i always pay her. If she cancels me that's different.

Theres no way she could reschedule me. She has 3 jobs and can only clean 2 days a week

I think you are taking this a bit personally, probably because you've had a fucking horrendous night that sounds terrifying. I hope you're little one is on the mend.
Chalk up to experience, pay them and then reflect on it when you've had a chance recover from this. They might be taking the piss or not.

I don't pay if I cancel but my cleaners are a tad unreliable and chop and change their times, sometimes I have to say no it's not convenient.

"Paying for a pension etc"??! What on earth makes you say that Cynderella?
I suspect the vast majority of arrangements like the one in the OP are cash in hand arrangements.

Just pay them but let them know this goes both ways and they won't be paid if they cancel on you in future. Tbh it all sounds a bit odd anyway, with the fella mainly hanging around your house while his partner does the bulk of the work and you're not there.

@RaisinRainbow You spoke my mind, however I don’t feel like I need endless appreciation for whatever holidays or bonuses we are paying them. I keep my distance from them and we don’t really see them in person that much. However, I expect a tiny bit of flexibility considering we are giving them a lot of it. It’s very rare for us to ask them to reschedule and I really think we are not unreasonable considering how many times they’ve rescheduled at the last minute. I don’t particularly fancy walking out in the freezing cold with a toddler on a Sunday simply because they forgot the keys when they were suppposed to to the cleaning, and yet we suck it up and do it. Clearly they see the relationship as being strictly business. If I wanted that king of relationship we would def use an agency and play by the business rules.

It would not be that difficult to find a new cleaner really, but we will keep them now until we leave. The quality of the cleaning has got better over time, it wasn’t particularly great at first (I.e. for ages they didn’t even clean the shower, just the shower door?! - perhaps someone may say that’s normal and AIBU?!). But I inherited them, my DH had them for a few years before I moved in and I didn’t have a say in choosing them. He feels sorry for them in some ways so he’s very lenient towards them.

I know it’s weird that there is 2 of them, him hanging around the house whilst she’s doing the cleaning, but I got used to the idea.

I know for a fact that they don’t have many cleaning jobs that’s why they are asking us if we know anyone who needs cleaners. We got them a job in the past which ended now as we don’t know many people in the area and they are not willing to travel very far. Perhaps people find it odd that there is 2 of them with him being disabled and so on? I really don’t know. And I don’t know what is going on in their lives really so maybe the can’t reschedule, but rescheduling for themselves seems very easy and a lot of slots available.

@Popc0rn they always reschedule at the last minute. Sometimes we would be already out and receive a call half an hour later saying they couldn’t come for whatever reason, can they come next day? And we make an effort for the next day with not much trouble. Perhaps next time we should say no and ask them to come next week?

Based on this, I wouldn't pay them.

I would probably look for another cleaner, they've become too complacent.

@Sillysallys the difference is, I asked for the cleaning to be rescheduled for any other day or time. The cleaning still needs to be done before next Saturday so we are considering getting someone in the meantime. The house is a complete mess as we are, as we’ve not slept for the past few nights or days and DD is very poorly and clingy at the moment

@Gooseygoosey12345 that makes me consider an agency

@Miha17 at least you know you have a contract that would be adhered to. If you're having a cleaner I'm assuming it's because you've got enough going on that you don't want to have to worry about cleaning, so you really don't want to have to worry about if they're coming/when they're coming or paying for it if it's not done. Just make sure you get one with good reviews. It'll probably be a bit more expensive but you know they have insurance and you're cleaning will always be done. I had ridiculously high standards too and didn't just leave my clients to put up with whatever got done. It was always done above expectations and my clients were always happy.

Just a quick update that DH texted them this morning asking if they know anyone in their circles who would like a cleaning job for 2 hours this week, as we really need the house cleaned. They replied 2 hours later saying they can now do 2 different days, either Wed at 12pm or Tue at 10 am. The prospect of losing money opened up a few slots. Of course, if they always get the money why would they be willing to reschedule. I think they've been taking things for granted for too long, can't wait to tell them we will be moving.

I don't understand this attitude that you are employing a cleaner-they are self employed and surely if you miss a week (with notice)'it's just how it is, there's no contract although if you did it often I suppose your cleaner may not want to allocate that time to you in future? I think it wouldn't hurt them to,have just rescheduled the day as you are flexible with them- in this situation it shouldn't be all give and no take.

OP what area are you in to pay £15 ph?

Also perhaps irrelevant to this particular issue, but about 2 months ago we came home after the supposed cleaning to find the house exactly how we left it. The kitchen worktops were wiped indeed but nothing else was touched and the money was gone. We were in shock. My DH who is a bit soft with them and always finds them excuses told me straight away that we should look for different cleaners. We were wondering what happened, were they drunk, were they hungover, did they have an emergency and left the house after 5 mins!? DH checked the phone, there was no communication. Obviously, we had to do the cleaning that afternoon. This remained a mystery until next Sat when we found out that she had to leave the country all of the sudden the day before and he came by himself and being disabled did whatever he could (the kitchen worktops). But no apologies or offer to do more another time, treated everything like nothing happened. We sucked it up and said nothing. What would anyone else have done in this case?! Though one.

@merchantgirl we are in London. Not sure what rates people are paying but I think that's a good rate per hour?!

Yes, I think it should be give and take. It's very one sided for us and I think things haven't been properly discussed in the beginning and my DH is not very assertive when it comes to money.