School punishment too harsh?

[Witchesandwizards]

Not sure if I’m unfairly taking DD’s side but she has been punished quite severely considering this is the first time in 5.5 years we have been contacted about her behaviour...

DD, 9, was on her way back from an inter school athletics competition when they reached the school perimeter, saw their friends in the playground and a group of about 12 kids ran, maybe 20 metres along the length of the fence to the school gate. On the pavement, no roads crossed, but obviously risked falling and she definitely did know that they weren’t supposed to run. I have no issue with her facing the repercussions, but I feel that the punishment they received is excessive:

They were called to the head and told off (so they couldn’t finish lunch despite being in school early for the competition, having no snacks during the event and DD having an after school club).

They had to write letters of apology to the teachers on the trip.

They had a detention.

They were banned from external sports event for the rest of the half term (4 weeks) - the head said it was to give them a short, sharp shock, but for DD is has been torture. She is OBSESSED with sports and has missed two events she has been looking forward to/training for, for a year. One of which she was the only person in her year to qualify for the finals for last year, and the other a sport that no one else in her year plays, but that she is talented at and plays for a club. I feel this means she is impacted to a greater degree - we are friends with some of the other kids punished and most are not interested in these two events so wouldn’t try out anyway and told me they don’t care about the punishment. I don't think she should have special treatment because of her love of sports, but I do think the punishment, while relevant to the crime, is not fair to all the children. She has also missed a couple more events that she would have liked to go to but is not as passionate about.

I have had a meeting with the head to discuss the incident, and thought that maybe there was more to it, but no. ‘Just’ the running. And she couldn’t understand how the sport ban punished some children more than others.

[youarenotkiddingme]

If school handle consequences effectively then children will understand about Sen and differentiation in consequences.

My ds is autistic so will have leniency if he's had a meltdown and done something.
However if he'd behaved badly and they realised it was loss of control and I'd found out he'd then bragged about attending an event despite his behaviour - the school wouldn't need to be the ones withdrawing him My thought process is that if gets that he's not had a consequence for behaviour he gets the behaviour was wrong and can link the 2. Therefore a consequence would have been correct and effective.

[Witchesandwizards]

I was told he would be dealt with separately and that is was none of mine or DDs business. But that doesn't help her understanding of the situation. It also doesn't help that her and 'boy' have, to date been selected for EVERY external sports competition. And he's still going to rugby tomorrow and she isn't....

I feel that we are in a bit of a skewed situation because she has been excluded from something she is obsessed about. I doubt I would be getting this involved had she not been bothered.

[RhiWrites]

The rugby’s today? I thought it was already over. That makes this whole thing worse. The head could have backed down and said “on reflection this punishment was excessive” but no. Instead they’ve stuck to their big guns.

It would give me great doubt in the school’s ability to be fair or proportionate. Everyone makes mistakes, refusing to acknowledge them is what’s wrong here.

[Witchesandwizards]

Yep, the rugby is today. The internal trials were 10 days ago, the inter school trials are today, and the finals are after half term. The swimming gala finals are also after half term.

The punishment that keeps on giving.

Despite several requests, the head is persistently refusing to answer my questions in writing (but has invited me to a meeting which, as a working parent is impossible this week), so tomorrow I will be dropping off my letter of complaint to the head of the governors.

[BubblesBuddy]

Oh dear. There are several problems here that are concerning me. I write as a very experienced school governor, former LA Officer and parent!

What you have here is a Deputy Head who is acting Head. Fromwhat you say she is a mild mannered lady. She is not the Head and verypossibly will not be the Head in the near future. Sheis merely holding thee fort. She is not going to do anythnge else. I have seen this problem so many times. She is not able to manage the situation. She has come out of the staffroom and allies herself to the teacher who made the decision about the punishment. Until she was Acting Head, they undoubtedly sat in the staff room together. She has not made the mental leap to being the Head so she is running away from dealing with this in an aporpriate manner.

You therefore have a person of weakness in the Head's shoes. She would lose face with the teacher so she is not proepared to challenge what the teacher has done.

Your only way now is to complain to the Governors. I think you are totally correct to point out that the school has not followed its own poicy and it is the Governors duty to monitor this policy. Clearly they now have a problem with the implementation of the policy and perhaps need reminding of what their role is.

However, I really do think you must try and meet the Head first. Sometimes complaints will not be taken seriously, and will be thrown back to the Head, if a meeting has been offered and the parent has not followed it up. Try and find a slot where you can meet. It will not be a confrontational meeting if the Head is pleasant. She sounds out of her depth and if you have appropriate information and facts, she would really want to avoid a formal complaint. Try and see her. The big problem is getting her to step up to her role and insist the policy is followed.

[BubblesBuddy]

Apologies for typos!

[Witchesandwizards]

Thanks Bubbles, I did see the head the week after it happened.
The meeting lasted 40 minutes and she continued to disagree with my points. I literally got nowhere.

Believe me this whole thing really pains me.
I love school. We are a 'school' family - I read with the kids, bake cakes, run stalls, donate money. My husband lugs table and chairs, sweeps floors after discos, donates yet more money. Last summer I was the vital 'extra' adult on several of the sports events (whether they were DD's year or not).
My point isn't that she deserves special treatment, just to show that we are not constantly in school complaining.

[DamonSalvatoresDinner]

Well on the bright side, you'll have loads of spare time and cash from now on. Time to quit volunteering. Screw them.

[parsleyeatingbunny]

I'm sorry your DD is having to miss so much, I can imagine how upset she is because mine would be the same. I hope you get a response soon.

[OldBean2]

OP, ask for a copy of the complaints procedure. You have spoken to the HT and are not happy with the response, so the next step is a letter or email to the Chair of Governors. Set out clearly the issues and how you would like it resolved. Chair investigated and responds to you.

If it is as you have written, I, as CoG, would be suggesting a revision of the punishment.

[Witchesandwizards]

I handed my letter of complaint to the head of the governors today and I will update when I hear back.
Thanks for everyone's advice.

[AppleKatie]

Well done OP. Hope sense prevails.

[RiverTam]

absolutely ludicrous. Way to go putting children off school and antagonizing parents.

Hope you get somewhere with the governors.

[Lizzie48]

@RiverTam exactly. This is a mum who has always been very active in supporting the school as well. They could end up losing that support now, what is the point of that???

[fezzesarecool]

Good luck op

[Coldandfrosty]

I work I schools and completely agree that punishment is v v OTT. You are doing the right thing op

[Witchesandwizards]

Agggggggghhhhhhh.
Just found out that rugby has been postponed until after half term but she still can't attend because they've already got a team. I obviously get that for the team but...
She is beyond devastated.

[BlackCatSleeping]

I’m so sorry to hear that

Is there a rugby club outside of school she could try out for?

[Witchesandwizards]

Hi, yes, she does play for a team outside school.
However, as one of only two children in school who play rugby, she was proud and really wanted to play with her school friends. She was supposed to be teaching them the rules before all this happened.
She'll get over it, it's just tough how bloody minded they are being.

Added upset - they found out yesterday that the second teacher they have had this year is leaving today. After half term = unknown supply teacher. Not a great year 5 so far.

[Witchesandwizards]

Finally received a reply from the head now she knows I have written to the governors. A bit long winded but:

The particular incident in question took place outside of normal school, day to day situations, when DD was taking part in an extra-curricular activity away from the school grounds.
As stated in the policy” The safety of the children is paramount in all situations”.

I was informed by staff members on their return from the Athletics competition that some children had not adhered to safety expectations when out of school and had run off from staff.
I was obviously very concerned to hear this.
Staff were disappointed and concerned that a group of Year 5 and 6 children had run off, putting themselves at risk and not listening to and respecting staff.
Although this had only been running along the pavement down X Road to get back to school , this behaviour was potentially dangerous and unacceptable.
In the policy it states” it is also the responsibility of the headteacher to ensure the health, safety and welfare of all the children in the school” and “ the headteacher supports the staff by implementing the policy by setting the standards of behaviour and supporting staff in their implementation of the policy.”

On their return from this event, and after having lunch. I spoke to all the children concerned about their behaviour and expressed my serious concerns about it.
As Year 5 and 6 children they are of an age to make the right choices and take responsibility for their actions. It is a privilege to be chosen to take part in extra- curricular events and therefore the sanction for this incident was to lose the privilege to participate in extra- curricular sporting events until February half term. I also felt there should be a written apology to the staff involved and there was a lunchtime detention as a time to reflect.

This sanction , I felt was fair and reflected the seriousness of what had taken place. Parents were informed by letter about this sanction. DfE guidelines state that “teachers have the statutory authority to discipline pupils whose behaviour is unacceptable, who break the school rules or fail to follow reasonable instructions.”

[Witchesandwizards]

Or my quotes from the policy:

"The safety of the children is paramount in all situations. If a child's behaviour endangers the safety of others, the class teacher stops the activity and prevents the child from taking part for the rest of that session. This may mean the child is escorted to the Headteacher or a senior member of staff.

For serious misdemeanours or repeated bad behaviour, the school has lunchtime detentions. The child has his name written in the behaviour book, with an explanation of why they are there. Six entries in the behaviour book triggers a letter being sent to parents."

FFS. They ran after a running event. Along one stretch of pavement. No one fell. The following week they had a running competition along the same stretch of pavement.

[Ellisandra]

I know this isn’t the point of your thread, but I’d be glad your child isn’t doing the school rugby tournament.

Rugby is a brilliant but potentially dangerous sport, as you well know as your child plays full contact.

Is the inter schools thing tag rugby? I bloody hope so!

I’d be having a meeting with the head to express my feelings on school sending a team who had just had a briefing by a 9yo, if not!

[BlackCatSleeping]

Still being pig-headed then?

I'd reiterate that the children were not permitted to finish their lunch and that you do not feel the punishment was in line with their behavior policy and leave it in the hands of the governors. I suspect the governors will back-up the head and the whole thing will leave a sour taste, but it sounds like you only have one more year to go. It's all a shame really.

[youarenotkiddingme]

I'd reply with you aren't happy with response. Re iterate the policy and just end with a simple question

"How do you propose a group of 9-11 to understand running along that stretch of pavement is a serious misdemeanour placing the safety and welfare of students at risk when the school use this stretch of road with others as part of the schools curriculum to run along"

"Does that mean the teaches who have arranged the running event have breached safeguarding by placing the pupils at risk?"

Pull the ball back in their court!

[Lochroy]

I agree it seems OTT but as pp have said, it could so easily have been the other way around 'school teachers in charge of children's well-being let them run off down the street'. I think it could be argued forever and I doubt the governors will back down.

What is more of a concern for me is sport being seen as a treat and it being withdrawn from pupils who are keen to participate. An alternative should have been found.