School punishment too harsh?

[Witchesandwizards]

Not sure if I’m unfairly taking DD’s side but she has been punished quite severely considering this is the first time in 5.5 years we have been contacted about her behaviour...

DD, 9, was on her way back from an inter school athletics competition when they reached the school perimeter, saw their friends in the playground and a group of about 12 kids ran, maybe 20 metres along the length of the fence to the school gate. On the pavement, no roads crossed, but obviously risked falling and she definitely did know that they weren’t supposed to run. I have no issue with her facing the repercussions, but I feel that the punishment they received is excessive:

They were called to the head and told off (so they couldn’t finish lunch despite being in school early for the competition, having no snacks during the event and DD having an after school club).

They had to write letters of apology to the teachers on the trip.

They had a detention.

They were banned from external sports event for the rest of the half term (4 weeks) - the head said it was to give them a short, sharp shock, but for DD is has been torture. She is OBSESSED with sports and has missed two events she has been looking forward to/training for, for a year. One of which she was the only person in her year to qualify for the finals for last year, and the other a sport that no one else in her year plays, but that she is talented at and plays for a club. I feel this means she is impacted to a greater degree - we are friends with some of the other kids punished and most are not interested in these two events so wouldn’t try out anyway and told me they don’t care about the punishment. I don't think she should have special treatment because of her love of sports, but I do think the punishment, while relevant to the crime, is not fair to all the children. She has also missed a couple more events that she would have liked to go to but is not as passionate about.

I have had a meeting with the head to discuss the incident, and thought that maybe there was more to it, but no. ‘Just’ the running. And she couldn’t understand how the sport ban punished some children more than others.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

Youknowmedontyou

Did the post not say that it was at a different time so that it didn't interfere with the sport.... I believe it did.

Just because a child is good at sport it should not mean that they have a different set of rules for them.

[Lizzie48]

But there would still be a detention, at a later date. So there would be a penalty.

And not for the child's sake, but it's unfair on the rest of the team who haven't misbehaved if they lose a game because several children potentially are on detention.

[LJdorothy]

'She definitely did know that they were not supposed to run'. So the supervising teacher had told them not to run and they disobeyed? Those circumstances are not the same as pupils running about in the playground. The pupils who ran (the boy's behaviour is none of the OP's business) disobeyed expressed instructions But it's okay for them to disobey because they were excited and hungry? What if there had been a road to cross? Would it still have been a petty rule? Are some of you saying that it's up to the children to make the decision about whether they should obey teachers' instructions or not?

[Atchiclees]

Op based on the policy, you need to ask for the HT to explain where the punishment that your DD has been given fits in with the behaviour policy. They cannot fit it into that, and if HT cannot explain (impossible) then you need to follow the complaints policy and say you will be making a formal complaint to have the incident assessed against the policy.
I am a chair of governors and I would be having a strong word with the Head in this case if I was contacted about it. The policies are there to protect staff and students.

[Youknowmedontyou]

@BoneyBackJefferson but they still do the detention, they still have the punishment, it's not different rules.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

Lizzie and Youknowmedontyou

So do the others in the class that have had their lesson disrupted, also get to dictate when their detentions are if they misbehave? If not then its unfair,

Lizzie

Its already unfair that the children in the class are missing out on something they like because someone else wants to disrupt. If the pupils in the team really gave a shit then they wouldn't misbehave in lessons.

As pointed out by AppleKatie too many schools allow some pupils to bend or break the rules due to sport.

Maybe just maybe we should stop this idolisation of people that can play a game and make more of an effort with those that want to learn.

[Lizzie48]

For goodness sake, why don't you read, @BoneyBackJefferson ? It's not hard. The suggestion is that THE DETENTION SHOULD HAPPEN!!! Please take note.

What's the issue with it happening ON ANOTHER DAY???

There could also be 2 detentions, if the offence was serious enough, or 100 lines, which was a popular punishment back in the day.

GIVE IT A REST!!!

[BoneyBackJefferson]

@Lizzie48

We have a difference of opinion, its not hard to understand.
Why don't you "GIVE IT A REST!!!" if you can't be bothered to discuss your point?

[Lizzie48]

And what happens if there are 5 team members with a detention, and a match final gets cancelled as a result? That would be very unfair on the players who hadn't misbehaved as well as on the members of staff involved.

And doubtless there would be other times when flexibility could be used when handing out detentions.

I repeat, though, no one is saying that there should be no penalty. And I wouldn't argue with the school about it if one of my DDs had to miss a sports match as a consequence of their misbehaviour. I would support the school.

It was just an off the cuff suggestion, adding to the debate.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

Lizzie48

If 5 team members have a detention, then maybe the school should be looking at the behaviour of the team and working on them behaving.

My point is that far too many schools make allowances for team members that misbehave.

My previous school dealt with this by getting the team members to sign a behaviour contract. (due to issues in previous years)

I haven't said that other posters are saying no detention, I'm saying that if the detention set on the night of the game then tough.

[RhiWrites]

Four punishments for running along a pavement where the only danger was that they might have fallen over? That’s excessive.

And being forbidden to compete in an event that’s taken months of training would be excessive anyway.

Take it to governors, OP. It’s too much.

[Lizzie48]

A behaviour contract sounds like a good idea, I would be all for that. I have 2 sporty DDs so it's something I could face, though thankfully they're both well behaved at school and hopefully that will continue, though as they're adopted this could change as they reach adolescence.

I was surprised you honed in on me, though. I only said I thought another poster had made a good suggestion, it wasn't my idea.

[Witchesandwizards]

LJdorothy.
I started this thread pissed off about the severity of a punishment that DD has received, but now I know that objectively the school are wrong and that they have not followed their own disciplinary procedure so it’s not as important what they actually did or didn’t do.
And of course ‘the boy’s’ behaviour has something to do with me. DD asked me “why does ‘boy’ constantly behave badly (and more dangerously) and is still allowed the swimming gala and rugby? Why is he allowed to taunt me by waving his swimming gala letter in my face?”.
How do you explain that if you are not allowed to talk about ADHD?

[BoneyBackJefferson]

Lizzie48

I apologise, it touched a nerve.

I have been through too many schools where being good at a sport is pretty much a pass for poor behaviour.

but going back to the OP I do think that missing four events is OTT>.

[OnTheHop]

How is running on tne pavement such a massive transgression? I don’t get what they did wrong!

[Dutchesss]

Yes, it's excessive and unnecessary. I would not be happy with that punishment for a generally well behaved 9 year old.

[lifetothefull]

If I'd been the teacher, the punishment would have been to return to the point at which they started to run, listen to me give them a talking to for about 2 mins, Apologise and demonstrate how they should have walked. Obviously repeating the proceedings if anyone ran. Job done. No need for anything excessive like this. I would not even report this to parents.

[Witchesandwizards]

I have drafted an email to the head. The original was very long and emotive, but the new one just asks how the punishments she has received fit within their disciplinary procedure and requests a copy of their complaints procedure.

[Atchiclees]

Witches that’s perfect. Hopefully you will get a retraction, if not follow the complaints up to Chair of Governors.

[Lizzie48]

It sounds like a good email, OP. I hope you get an appropriate response from the head.

@BoneyBackJefferson thank you for your apology. Things do get heated on MN sometimes, especially on threads that are school related.

[WineAndTiramisu]

That seems very excessive, I can't imagine that she'd be banned from maths competitions if she'd run home from one of those...

[BlackeyedGruesome]

Bloody hell, what happened to "Go back and show me how to walk properly?"

[BlackeyedGruesome]

Or if they had been particularly reckless, "Do you want to have to spend all playtime showing me how to do that properly?"

[Lizzie48]

I think the OP might have been right that the teachers had become stressed by having to reign in her DD's friend, and hence they overreacted. That would be understandable, but nevertheless not right.

It hasn't been well handled either way, DD's friend gloating about being able to go to the gala. The other kids are bound to see it being unjust when he (from their point of view) behaved a lot worse than they did,

[BlackCatSleeping]

Good luck with the email, OP!

I really hope the Head backs down over this.