School punishment too harsh?

[Witchesandwizards]

Not sure if I’m unfairly taking DD’s side but she has been punished quite severely considering this is the first time in 5.5 years we have been contacted about her behaviour...

DD, 9, was on her way back from an inter school athletics competition when they reached the school perimeter, saw their friends in the playground and a group of about 12 kids ran, maybe 20 metres along the length of the fence to the school gate. On the pavement, no roads crossed, but obviously risked falling and she definitely did know that they weren’t supposed to run. I have no issue with her facing the repercussions, but I feel that the punishment they received is excessive:

They were called to the head and told off (so they couldn’t finish lunch despite being in school early for the competition, having no snacks during the event and DD having an after school club).

They had to write letters of apology to the teachers on the trip.

They had a detention.

They were banned from external sports event for the rest of the half term (4 weeks) - the head said it was to give them a short, sharp shock, but for DD is has been torture. She is OBSESSED with sports and has missed two events she has been looking forward to/training for, for a year. One of which she was the only person in her year to qualify for the finals for last year, and the other a sport that no one else in her year plays, but that she is talented at and plays for a club. I feel this means she is impacted to a greater degree - we are friends with some of the other kids punished and most are not interested in these two events so wouldn’t try out anyway and told me they don’t care about the punishment. I don't think she should have special treatment because of her love of sports, but I do think the punishment, while relevant to the crime, is not fair to all the children. She has also missed a couple more events that she would have liked to go to but is not as passionate about.

I have had a meeting with the head to discuss the incident, and thought that maybe there was more to it, but no. ‘Just’ the running. And she couldn’t understand how the sport ban punished some children more than others.

[AppleKatie]

Sounds like a good email OP. Hopefully the head will see sense.

We all overreact occasionally but the mark of a good head is humility in such situations imho.

[DamonSalvatoresDinner]

I hope the email makes the HT reconsider their position. I understand why you feel that the teacher may have been wound up with the other child's bad behaviour and flipped.

My DD has a couple of very disruptive classmates in her class who regularly riled last year's teacher up so badly that the whole class was often yelled at and made to stay late or lose break times or treats most days. Of course it's not very professional but even DD used to say, "X and Z made her so mad mum".

Personally I would want to tell my DD not to run on the pavement around school ever again. Due to the school's excessive punishments for this one occasion she needs to learn it must never be repeated. It's much safer to walk around. I would make sure she knew this applied to the whole class being out there, jostling for pole position for running competition training. How terribly dangerous, right?

[fezzesarecool]

I think the punishment was very over the top.

I would also look up the school’s gifted and talented policy as clearly your child fits this category in regards to sports. Schools are supposed to offer children opportunities and support in areas that they show they are gifted in. For example a child that is part of a performance agency, schools will authorise absences for auditions as long as the child’s attendance is within the threadshold and it doesn’t clash with major exams.

[Witchesandwizards]

Sent and awaiting a response.

Intro blah, blah..."I have read the online behaviour policy and, if anything, I am even more confused about the severity of the punishments.
There is no mention of a misdemeanour so bad that it warrants four punishments, including one that excludes children from sports trials for several weeks, the impact of which, spills into March. Indeed, a ‘serious misdemeanour’ is only punished with a lunchtime detention, and six of these, a letter home. As we have received a letter (email), I would like evidence of the other five occasions when she was punished with a detention. Other than whole class detentions, she cannot think of any in the last five years. The punishment clearly indicates that her behaviour has been classified as worse that a 'serious misdemeanour' and I would like to understand how this decision was taken prior to the decision to impose sanctions.

Despite my attempt to resolve this at the time, it is now too late to change the outcome, so my only option is to proceed with a formal complaint so could you please forward the complaints procedure?

I am very sad to have to do this as we are big advocates of the school and try and support in any way we can, but at the same time feel DD has been treated unfairly. " blah, blah....

[DamonSalvatoresDinner]

That sounds perfect. I particularly like the part mentioning the other 5 occasions of detentions that never happened.

[Allusernamestakenbutthis]

Brilliant. Please keep us posted.

[Magenta82]

Great email!
Clear, proportionate and factual. It should be much more effective to call them out for not following their own policies thank it would be to complain that it "feels" to harsh.

[Witchesandwizards]

I received the following one liner:

"I am sorry you feel this way and I am happy to discuss this further if you would like to. Please find attached the school complaints policy".

Of course I bloody wish to discuss this further. I asked specific questions but they are never prepared to put anything in writing.

I responded:
"Thank you for your response.
Unfortunately I have to work extra days this week so cannot come in to school, but would appreciate a written to response to my questions, particularly why the school appears not to adhere to it's own behaviour and disciplinary procedure. The behaviour policy is very clear and I struggle to see why DD has been punished outside of this. When I met with you previously, I had not seen the policy but this would have made that meeting far more objective. "

[Magenta82]

"I'm sorry you feel this way"

How flipping patronising! You wrote a factual email questioning their actions, not an emotional rant! Her response is dismissive and inappropriate.

Clearly the power she has over children has gone to her head!

[Allusernamestakenbutthis]

I'm not surprised by this response tbh. I don't think HTs ever back down. I had similar when a bullying procedure was not followed, quoted their policy, provided evidence, even later learnt they had details of confessions from the bullies and they did nothing. Please keep us updated on how this goes.

[Witchesandwizards]

Allusernames, that dawned on me as soon as I received the response. What am I actually going to do if she refuses to explain? I can (and will) follow the complaints procedure, but it doesn't get me anywhere. It might have been different had DD been the only one punished, but with circa 14 kids involved, what are the implications for school?

Ironically she is the sweetest, quietest lady - ex deputy head who is acting head while they recruit. Not power hungry at all...

[AppleKatie]

Wait 48 hours and submit a complaint. The head is calling your bluff.

[PanamaPattie]

The Head won't back down. I would suggest that DD concentrates on sports events out of school. Join more clubs. DD will enjoy the challenge. If the Head thinks that punishing children by banning them from sports is acceptable, removing DD from any inter school sports will stop the Head using that form of punishment again. The school will lose out in the end but your DD will thrive.

[youarenotkiddingme]

That's a good point about doing her sport out of school and not giving permission for her to attend inter schools events.
I'm totally for being taken out to represent the school being dependent on behaviour (no one wants some who will represent school badly at events!) but this was a small boy of silly behaviour - not a serious misdemeanour which would bring the school into disrepute.

Your email is great.
The HT is patronising. And trying to avoid things being written down. S

[Witchesandwizards]

She does do all the sports outside school but she is soooo proud of being able to represent her school.
She has one more event after half term that is really important to her, and it would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces (that looks odd written down!) to pull her out, but she is not going to do anything she doesn't feel passionate about.

So we are taking her out of a singing thing which requires a weekend rehearsal and evening, mid week performance in central London. She really doesn't want to go..

[mathsquestions]

Maybe you could use the non compliance with policy as a way for them to climb down but still having given the sharp shock they desired.

[Comenext]

What PanamaPattie said. The school will be the loser ultimately.

[incywincybitofa]

My feeling is the complaints procedure is being forwarded as asked but if you go and see the head they will shift their position quietly whilst pretending they are being very conscilliatory

[BlackCatSleeping]

I think you should still push ahead with the official complaint. Even if the Head refuses to back down and there's no apology, there will still be reprimands behind the scenes and the teachers told to adhere to correct policy, which will hopefully ensure nothing like this happens again.

If the Head wants to avoid an official complaint, then let her come to you. That email she sent was dreadful.

[Witchesandwizards]

That's what happened last time incy-wincy. Without the backing of the policy I didn't really have an argument, but there was lots of "we love DD" and "we have her earmarked for 'next event she wants to enter'". With hindsight she was trying to placate me.

I've been thinking about my argument if this is ignored.

DD was punished for betraying their trust. If they refuse to stand by their own published policies, they are betraying the trust of the children.
What next? Ignore the safeguarding policy? The bullying policy?

It teaches children that rules are there to be broken.

I am definitely going to push ahead with my complaint if I do not receive a response to my questions within 48 hours.

[Witchesandwizards]

I would imagine she is now consulting the governors - surely she must realize that she is at fault?

[AppleKatie]

I wouldn’t bet on it. Depends how arrogant she is being. If you are a generally ‘on side’ parent she probably thinks it will blow over. (Tbf an amazing number of parents do back right off and lose interest after an initial cross email).

[hennaoj]

DD asked me “why does ‘boy’ constantly behave badly (and more dangerously) and is still allowed the swimming gala and rugby? Why is he allowed to taunt me by waving his swimming gala letter in my face?”.
How do you explain that if you are not allowed to talk about ADHD?

You could explain to your daughter that some children are different to others so will a different behaviour policy will be applied to them.
The school aren't doing him any favours by not explaining to the class about SEN. I asked my youngest sons teacher (he has Autism) to explain about him to the rest of the reception class. Before that I actually had one child from the class ask why he was soo mean and another insist he was bad.

[AppleKatie]

The school aren't doing him any favours by not explaining to the class about SEN.

True but their hands may be tied. If the boys parents don’t want him discussed with the other children then that’s that.

[Witchesandwizards]

And I did back down after the initial meeting.
But after finding out last week that she was allowed (probably mistakenly) to take part in the rugby trial but was not allowed to the competition despite being the only child to throw properly, catch properly and get through the 'defence', I decided to proceed.

She does understand SEN but as AppleKatie said, we can't tell her about him and, because she has known him since they were 2, she wouldn't apply any more abstract explanation to him. How he behaves is just him.

But I would guess she is one of the most empathetic children in her class. There is another child in class with learning difficulties, and way back in year 1/2 she recognized this, and would often partner with him because she spotted no one else did. She still protects him from bullying today. Last term some kids were taking the piss out of a Christmas card he was drawing and she defended him.