School punishment too harsh?

[Witchesandwizards]

Not sure if I’m unfairly taking DD’s side but she has been punished quite severely considering this is the first time in 5.5 years we have been contacted about her behaviour...

DD, 9, was on her way back from an inter school athletics competition when they reached the school perimeter, saw their friends in the playground and a group of about 12 kids ran, maybe 20 metres along the length of the fence to the school gate. On the pavement, no roads crossed, but obviously risked falling and she definitely did know that they weren’t supposed to run. I have no issue with her facing the repercussions, but I feel that the punishment they received is excessive:

They were called to the head and told off (so they couldn’t finish lunch despite being in school early for the competition, having no snacks during the event and DD having an after school club).

They had to write letters of apology to the teachers on the trip.

They had a detention.

They were banned from external sports event for the rest of the half term (4 weeks) - the head said it was to give them a short, sharp shock, but for DD is has been torture. She is OBSESSED with sports and has missed two events she has been looking forward to/training for, for a year. One of which she was the only person in her year to qualify for the finals for last year, and the other a sport that no one else in her year plays, but that she is talented at and plays for a club. I feel this means she is impacted to a greater degree - we are friends with some of the other kids punished and most are not interested in these two events so wouldn’t try out anyway and told me they don’t care about the punishment. I don't think she should have special treatment because of her love of sports, but I do think the punishment, while relevant to the crime, is not fair to all the children. She has also missed a couple more events that she would have liked to go to but is not as passionate about.

I have had a meeting with the head to discuss the incident, and thought that maybe there was more to it, but no. ‘Just’ the running. And she couldn’t understand how the sport ban punished some children more than others.

[StoppinBy]

I can see a punishment being handed out because the children didn't listen and ran away instead of staying as a group

BUT saying that they could have fallen and banged their heads so that's why they can't run is ridiculous, they were coming from........

a sporting event where, oh my, the shock, the horror.... they would have been running and could have tripped and broken their leg or banged their heads at any time.

I think the punishment was harsh but I also think the kids should have not run off without being released from the group, they can injure themselves running or jumping or climbing or sliding or walking down the stairs etc at any time during the school hours so a tripping accident wouldn't even be on my radar but when out of the school grounds (even by a little bit) the need to do as they are instructed is paramount to maintaining safety.

[WelcomeToGreenvale]

She has been treated fairly. Same punishment as every other child involved, clubs and activities not a factor.

Would you like her to be excused from the punishment while the other dozen children continued it? Is that fair to them? I can't imagine that none of them have other activities that they're having to miss, sports or otherwise, and I bet all their parents are raging as you are.

The punishment is, as the Head said, a short sharp shock. Probably "torture" for all the other kids too.

[WhichUsernameIsLeft]

Exactly what itsyersel said.

Are you implying that your daughter has been treated unfairly because she particularly enjoys sports? Are there any dyslexic children in that group who, by your logic, are being treated unfairly because they may find it more challenging to write the letter of apology component of the punishment than your daughter?

They all performed the same misdemeanour and all received the same punishment. That is fair. You can't seriously be suggesting the teachers cherry pick differing punishments for individual pupils in a bid to cause equal emotional upset to each child as part of the punishment?

They are teachers: hard working, underpaid and nurturing our future generations. I'm pretty sure the teachers were also hungry and would have preferred to catch up with food/marking etc. rather than give themselves extra hassle of detentions and meetings with parents.

In my opinion you are being very precious about your daughter, sorry. On an external trip from school grounds children should be expected to act as good examples on behalf of the school. If they cannot do that they either never go on a school trip or they receive a punishment to make them learn the importance of better behaviour.

It's easy. She'll sit out sports until next term, cry a little for the sports she will miss this next few weeks and won't misbehave next time.

And no, I'm not a teacher.

[junebirthdaygirl]

As a teacher l find this excessive. She didn't run at the event but back outside her own school. Teachers are in place of teachers. Surely all parents let their dc run once they are in sight of home where no possible harm could come to them. This wouldn't even raise an eyelid at our school where children are very well behaved and we have no discipline issues. Children are not robots. Fine give them a talking too if you see it as a big deal but all those punishments..thats madness. Is this a no running school?
What kinds of punishments are usually given to other children for bad behaviour?
Sounds totally over the top to me. And l have taught in a good few schools over a long career.

[julensaor]

very harsh, but maybe there are a couple of leaders in the group who have more control over their peers that is desirable; maybe they are trying out toehold divide and conquer strategy?

[snitzelvoncrumb]

That is ridiculous. The teacher would have been able to see they were just going to say hello to their friends. Being told off would have been sufficient. I would be annoyed but would accept the punishment, but that would be the end of my child competing for the school. Find sport outside of school.

[Witchesandwizards]

Ironically they started training for a running competition the following week. The whole class, all 30 of them running round the block on the pavement that makes up the school perimeter. Jostling for pole position.

[Atchiclees]

Any punishment/sanctions must fit with your school’s behaviour policy. It is not for the Head to deviate from the policy set by the Governors. Download a copy of the policy from the school website and check it carefully. It seems excessive to me.
Also download a copy of your school complaints policy and follow that, escalating up to the Chair of Governors if you get nowhere and take it from there.

[incywincybitofa]

I think there is an issue here of the teacher and how much control they had. It sounds like your daughter and her friends may behave better for other teachers and the why might be part of the rationale here.
It is a shame your daughter misses the matches she is down for, but it sounds like the school will also loose out.

[BubblesBuddy]

What does the sanctions policy say? If these children have done something wrong , the punishment must follow the sanctions policy and the behaviour policy too. It looks to me as if the punishment is ludicrously harsh.

The offence was minor. The children were on the pavement. They are 9, not 5. They remained safe. There is no safeguarding issue! Total rubbish. Obviously they should have done what they were told but having been on school trips, children get excited to see parents after the trip. They are dismissed to their parents as they get off the coach. Maybe the school could review how they dismiss children. One by one might be best from now on!

[Greensleeves]

Just harking back to your earlier posts OP, one thing is niggling at me. The Head's comment about your dd's success depending on attitude as well as ability. Is it possible the Head has some sort of personal antipathy for/personality clash with your dd? Because that would be very unprofessional indeed.

[Witchesandwizards]

Thanks Atchilees

This is a section copied from the policy (I have left out the sections on classroom disruption):

The safety of the children is paramount. If a child's behaviour endangers the safety of others, the class teacher stops the activity and prevents the child from taking part for the rest of that session. This may mean the child is escorted to the Head or a senior member of staff. 

If a child threatens, hurts or bullies another child, the class teacher records the incident and the child is punished, proportionate to the incident. 

For serious misdemeanours or repeated bad behaviour, the school has lunchtime detentions. The child has his name written in the behaviour book, with an explanation of why they are there. Six entries in the behaviour book triggers a letter being sent to parents. 

If a child repeatedly acts in a way that disrupts or upsets others, the school contacts the child's parents or carers and seeks an appointment in order to discuss the situation, with a view to improving the behaviour of the child.

[Witchesandwizards]

Greensleeves - no I think that was just to deflect my argument that DD was effected disproportionately. She's popular with teachers generally.

[Greensleeves]

Just a really bizarre decision then. Poor dd

[Witchesandwizards]

I'll pass on the

[ReanimatedSGB]

If the Head won't back down, write to the Chair of Governors. This is ridiculously harsh and an indication that the Head needs slapping down: some people go into education purely so they can throw their weight about.
These DC behaved a bit irresponsibly because they were excited - and hungry. None of them was being cruel, or defiant, or dishonest. A bollocking and maybe one afternoon's detention would have been plenty by way of punishment.

[ReanimatedSGB]

It's also very, very important to teach DC that their parents have got their back, and that it is possible to stand up to unreasonable and unfair punishment. People who misuse their 'authority' should be defied, disobeyed, mocked and undermined.

[JustOneShadeOfGrey]

Bollocks. There are rules and there is sheer bloody mindedness. DD had just returned from an athletics competition and she ran? Holy moly! What is the world coming to??

Rules can and should be challenged by parents. I have never heard the like of it. They’re young children - they move fast! They fall, they graze their knees, they survive.

First world problems. Fit, healthy children are not allowed to use the gifts they were born with. They get wrapped (suffocated) in cotton wool and become surly game addicts.

Denying them their lunch break and giving them detention after they’d represented their school is outrageous. Food and exercise should never ever be associated with punishment.

I’d move to a school with common sense.

[BlackCatSleeping]

In that case, if you wanted to take it further, I’d complain that the school hasn’t followed its own procedures. The rest is subjective, but that they didn’t follow procedure is undeniable.

[wireswireswires]

This is utterly mental. British schooling has gone bonkers.

[berniebee]

I don’t think punishments should include missing sport or clubs or parties where you are affecting or letting down other people. For that reason alone YANBU

[Witchesandwizards]

Justoneshadeofgrey - they missed lunch the day of the incident Friday. AND had a lunchtime detention on the Monday. It is indeed bollocks.

[Witchesandwizards]

It’s clear they are not following their own policy. Let’s assume it was a serious misdemeanour - the punishment should have been a detention and report in the behaviour book. I checked with her this morning - it’s her first lunchtime detention (other than whole class detentions) in 5.5 years so even the letter (email) home was off piste.

I didn’t want to mention this as I don’t think you can accuse staff of this, but there is a bit of a back story on the day.
There is a very disruptive child, one of DDs close friends and a close family friend, who plays up at every event and every class - his name is the first on every teacher’s lips. He has just been diagnosed with ADHD which explains his behaviour. At this event he was constantly shouted at - walking in the road, pushing other children towards the road and general bad behaviour during the athletics. He wasn’t involved in the running (he admits he would have been had member of staff not had him at the back, pretty much by the scruff of his neck). The kids don’t know he has ADHD and cannot understand why he was not punished. He was there when they were all told off but nothing further. And bragged the following week when he got into the swimming gala, waving his letter in DDs face.
DH reckons he wound the staff up so much earlier that they lost their shit with the kids who ran.

[ReanimatedSGB]

That makes it even worse. Follow all proper procedures but give the school staff as hard a time as you reasonably and civilly can. Otherwise there is a good chance of the school getting carried away and believing they can impose arbitrary and excessive punishments whenever they like.
You get a lot of posters on threads like this whining about the need to 'respect authority'. Actually, it's far better to teach DC that respect needs to be earned, and you are under no obligation to respect authority that doesn't respect you. So petty rules should be cheerfully, politely and repeatedly disobeyed and harsh sanctions resisted and complained about.

[JustOneShadeOfGrey]

One of my DS has ADHD and is punished along with the rest of his class. Same rules apply, albeit he is given more support and guidance to remind him of the rules. The boy in your DDs class didn't run because he was restrained but a punishment should have been given out for his other behaviour on the trip. He might not have been able to regulate his emotions or behaviours as well as the other children but he does need the same firm boundaries (or more boundaries) and sanctions imposed when he committed the other "crimes". However, I hope the SENCO in the school moves fast on getting resources in place for this child to give staff the right tools to support him. This will not just have an impact on him but on the other children, who, rightly so, don't know about the diagnosis. But
children are more intuitive than we think!