To think most people in the UK don't really care about NI

[Tooldemont]

Just that really, we don't seem to be a together nation and many people I know would just prefer Ireland to become one country on that landmass.

Maybe it's just my circles, but rings true here

we all left -- there was a hideous recession, no jobs or opportunities
I think he likes to think he's different. I know loads of CoI people here in the West and I don't think they would agree with him at all.

eyewhisker, I don’t doubt it’s more complex, like I say, my knowledge is limited!

Most of my social circle are southern protestants. Which is kinda odd as I'm a NI catholic.

They are all happy in ROI and have a strong sense of their Irish identity, which is slightly different to a catholic Irish identity (more rugby, less GAA) but still strongly Irish none the less.

They're a baffled by staunch NI unionists too and don't feel any more affinity with them than the rest of the population. Many COI Protestants in the South would be very socially liberal, so that's a big barrier.

The thing that always gets me are the NI unionists who have never even visited the ROI. How can they have such strong views about a place they've never even been to?!?!? Not to mention them missing out on a beautiful country that's just a short drive away.

annonymised I live in west of Scotland and every year there are thousands of marches glorifying and reliving events that happened in 17th century, every ither week songs are sung doing exactlly the same.

Laurie - they despise us and all things Irish. Not all unionists but the type of hardliners the DUP are representative of. I don't know where that level of hatred comes from given that they're not the ones whose rights were trampled all over for decades. There were a lot of parallels between the civil rights movement in the US and the nationalists in NI back in the 60s/70s.

The best thing about the Good Friday Agreement is that it allows people living in Northern Ireland to identify as British, Irish or both. You can have one or other passport or you can hold both. The mechanics of the European Union (i.e. freedom of movement, customs union, single market, etc) is what made the Good Friday Agreement work. It was an incredible agreement that brought peace and reconciliation and was built on the foundations of European Union membership.

What was shocking was that the Tory Party, the party of the Union, put the Union itself at such risk for the sake of internal Tory party conflicts over the EU. I don't blame ordinary folk for not given NI huge consideration in their daily lives, but David Cameron should have!

There is a legal argument that says Britain's commitment to uphold the Good Friday Agreement means that a no-deal crash out of the EU is impossible as it would cause a hard border to be reinstated (there is a section re economic arrangements can't have a negative effect on the agreement).

It's all King James VI's fault. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster
As farmers we have quite a lot of comings and goings with N Irish and ROI people. All brilliant people. I bought an Irish sheep last year. He's feisty mind. He took a run up and butted me in the leg because I got too near his ewes.

While the heart says a united ireland would be good the head says that it was impossible to do at the time. At the time of independence the Ulster division had fought magnificently during the First World War and it would have been an act of betrayal to tell the predominantly Protestant soldiers that they were now citizens of a different county would not only have been an ,act of betrayal it would have saddled the newly independent Ireland with a horrendous civil war. Bear in mind that the Ulster division had been discharged and were back in Ulster and the Irish army was just being formed, putting them up against more than 30,000 battle hardened veterans would have been a recipe for disaster.

Whilst Irish Americans have long campaigned for a united ireland the American government would have dreaded it for much the same reason. From memory there were nine battalions of the Ulster defence regiment all well trained and experts in fighting in built up areas for large parts of the late 20th century and they probably wouldn’t have taken the decision to unite Ireland lying down either and given their role was counter terrorism then they would have really good at terrorism.

The good Friday agreement was th best way, it put the decision to unite Ireland offf for generations. When no one can no longer say “them bastards killed my father” the. It may be time to revisit the subject of a united Irelandwest.

This thread makes me ashamed to be English.

It was obvious prior to the Referendum that a leave vote would fuck over the GFA. One of the reasons I voted to remain.

All these posters saying to "give back NI and have a United Ireland", can fuck off. We can't colonise somewhere historically and then ditch it, just because some idiot leavers are "bored of hearing about the backdrop". Maybe they should have thought about that before they voted? The backstop is simply the GFA. An international treaty. If the UK gov break it, I hope it makes other countries refuse a trade deal with us. We wouldn't deserve one!

NI is as much a part of the UK as London. I hate the DUP for fucking over the wishes of most of NI for their own ends. But I hate the Tories more for their casual disregard of the NI and their attitude that they can bully RofI.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, but I am just furious about it.

@parthenope I posted in response to another poster who said it was fine for graham norton living as a Protestant in Ireland - as an argument for why ireland could have unified with NI. He didn’t have a good time and was not accepted where he lived. Most Protestant children in Ireland still go to different schools from catholic ones, it’s still very segregated even if it’s a little better than it was.

I do know where graham norton came from it’s Bandon in Cork.

Lucy. NI is not as much a part of the UK as London. It is a colonial relic and resented as such by many of its population.

You argue that Britain can’t just colonise somewhere and then withdraw? But that perpetuates the problem. Britain should not colonise a country and then annex part of it. At some point colonisation is wrong and just hanging onto the bits out of loyalty to colonial settlers is part of the problem.

Forgot to say......if and when the RofI and NI decide, in a referendum, that they want to reunite, then that wish should be respected.

But trying to bully RofI and seeing NI as a "problem" is a despicable view that the Tories are taking. The GFA should be paramount.

I am appalled at the lack of history of the whole island of Ireland that is taught in English schools. I honestly believe that this is so that the Westminster government could push its biased viewpoint during the Troubles.

The English government have a lot to answer for historically and at the present. I am ashamed to be English and only identify as British.

@Parthenope - That is a deeply naive comment, hence my suggestion that you do some reading.

And that is a rather patronising comment.

I understand from a logical and historical perspective why people don't identify as northern Irish. However, I still find it difficult, on an emotional level, to understand why people would not want to move on and look for what unites, rather than what divides, them, particularly given the turbulent history of Northern Ireland. More and more people are doing that and hopefully, as we move further away from the troubles, people will embrace what they have in common and be proud of their Northern Ireland identity, in addition to their Irish or British identity.

Agreed OP, I live in england and the ignorance is astounding or indifference to me. The view most seem to have re The Troubles is IRA bad guys, soldiers/Brit government good guys ignoring entirely Loyalist terrorism and any unfairness/ injustice/ illegal in the side of the British government. For the record - I despise ALL terrorists but don’t think setting some up ad goodies versus baddies was/is helpful.

Lots of people mention not wanting to go back to the days of terrorist activity, even refusing to give into to terrorism.

How many people even know about or care about the days of routine discrimination against catholic / nationalist people?

when the major employers typically the shipyards and the civil service were closed to catholic's incase they harboured nationalist tendencies.

housing and schools segregated

As for the intimidation of marches with loud drums down streets whose inhabitants were not in sympathy with the cause so dear to the hearts of the marchers. Marches designed to be intimidating and cause trouble being given permission to go ahead

Horrible, all of it and not how anyone would want things to work in a decent state.

But people only seem to remember the terrorist activities.

Maybe some have heard about unarmed civil rights demonstrators being shot dead paratroopers of the British Army....

Eyewhisker - I agree that the historical colonisation was terrible. But many people in NI now identify as British or both British and Irish.

It is for the whole population of the NI and RofI to decide the future of NI. Not Westminster.

Most Protestant children in Ireland still go to different schools from catholic ones
This may be true at primary level but by secondary they are mostly integrated. There aren't many post- primary COI schools outside of Dublin and Cork.

Also Catholics and Protestants live side-by-side in their communities not in separate areas.

Finally here - well said. It was bloody disgusting how Catholics/nationalists were treated. Vile.

it’s still very segregated even if it’s a little better than it was.

I don't think the north and south are at all comparable when it comes to segregation and I've lived in both.

In the north, religion impacts so much, from where you live, to how you vote, to schools, heck even the transfer test you do for grammar schools.

That's not true of the south at all. Even schooling is being transformed by the Educate Together movement which is hugely popular (our local ET school had 8 times as many applicants as places this year.)

Religion just doesn't loom that large in the Republic nowadays. And what with the high numbers of European immigrants and international types working in the tech sector, whether you're Catholic or Protestant is neither here nor there.

Plenty of people I know in the north have pretty much never spoken to a member of the 'opposite faith' socially, despite living a few streets away. That's not true of the Republic.

@Eyewhisker - NI is not as much a part of the UK as London. It is a colonial relic and resented as such by many of its population.

The hint is in the name - The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

You could certainly argue that NI is not British as British implies you are a citizen of Britain (although that would exclude the Scottish unless you defined British as a citizen of Great Britain). However, there is no descriptor for citizen of the UK, so British is used as shorthand to describe a citizen of the UK (unless you're Irish.......).

This thread makes me ashamed to be English.

All these posters saying to "give back NI and have a United Ireland", can fuck off

I agree. I have never been to NI and have no affiliation there. But I cannot believe the ignorance on here. I care about the NI.

I care about NI very much as do my family and friends. In fact I've written to my MP this week to state how important it is that NI be protected and the GFA upheld.

However I think a lot of Leavers didn't even give NI a moments thought when they marked their ballot paper.

The 6 counties were not hived off as a result of a vote. We had a bloody war of independence.

Yes, you're right, but there was a referendum later, in the 1930s, when the Six Counties voted to stay separate.

I also strongly care about the people there with British heritage who want to remain British citizens.

But they keep voting for the DUP who won't tolerate British laws regarding same-sex marriage or a woman's right to choose. Imo they want to be British in name only.