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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

NICU staff being judgemental.

704 replies

NicuProblem · 06/02/2019 09:31

I'm in tears. Requested my baby's medical notes after a prem birth. Found a part where apparently they started a visiting log as they felt we didn't stay on the ward long enough, that I wasn't talkative enough and that my husband "rarely visited".

I don't drive and have an older child with disabilities. My husband works and at that time was working night shifts. They KNEW this.

I feel distraught by this notion that at my most vulnerable when I was trying my best I was judged as somehow not good enough.

OP posts:
Mmmmbrekkie · 07/02/2019 13:33

@sirzy
Exactly
You sound very sensible

BIgBagofJelly · 07/02/2019 13:35

It's absolutely not about the money. It's about someone taking responsibility for their lack of action and preventing it from reoccurring as I spoke to another mother and she had a similar experience.

By taking money away from the NHS you won't achieve that. By all means make a complaint though (although definitely not about the notes as there's nothing wrong there).

Mia1415 · 07/02/2019 13:41

*But if the concern is but what if mum's ill that would apply to single parents. Or that ISNT the concern and they're passing a judgement on how our family dynamic works. It may have been their job to but you can't say it's concern for the mum being ill and having no one to step in if that concern doesn't apply to single parents.

Regarding suing. I used to think like that too. Then I experienced complete and utter contempt from NHS staff and my daughter paid the price for their abhorrent attitude and behaviour. Someone will be held accountable for the pain and suffering she went through when it was unnecessary.*

I don't think that was the concern at all. I imagine its more why on earth isn't the Dad visiting more! Does he not want the child? Is there a risk. They don't know you. The nurses have to make assessments on what they say. The majority of posters on here have said how unusual it is. Their job is to safeguard. Anything unusual would raise a flag (as it should!).

I'm a single Mum and I've been through an incredibly difficult 5 months dealing with appalling care from the NHS (and some amazing care too) with my DM. I understand your anger. But holding someone accountable is not the same thing as suing! Who do you think pays the compensation? Certainly not the people who treated you or your baby.

I've spent the last 5 months hospital visiting my DM, every single night, no matter how tired I was (with my DS in tow). So I'm sorry I personally do think its pretty poor of your DH to visit only once a week. I can't think of a single father I know who would not have visited more often.

I'm very sorry you have had such a difficult time and you are upset about the notes, but I really don't think the nurses were being unreasonable.

Cluckinghell · 07/02/2019 14:17

As I've said above as a single parent like others have said I am often (including when I had a sick child in hospital and was sick myself) asked about my support network. Often. Even now mine are much older.

I would never sue the NHS UNLESS they had done such damage that I required the money to care for my child in a special way due to their neglect . The NHS has no money and I'd rather what they had was spent on treatment.

There are ways of making sure it won't happen again without money UNLESS you need the money because of actual damages.
I know because I've done it.

SleepingStandingUp · 07/02/2019 14:26

Re the support question - DH and I were fortunate to get hhopsital accommodation at all 4 hospitals over a 9 weeks stay with our only child and then I slept on ward for the last 4 weeks. So DH was there 6 pm til bedtime and briefly before work and all weekend. I never left unless is was a shoeless flight to Greggs whilst he was asleep other than to eat off ward because we couldn't eat bedside at some of the hospitals. I was still asked about support networks. DH was expected to be fully competent because knowing we were in a relationship meant if I suddenly fell down dead / broke a leg HE would be childcare. Had I been a single Mum it would obviously be a different question. The point is they have a duty of care to their patient.

Suing is a difficult topic. My friends child will have significant physical and learning disabilities because of poor care. Mum may never be able to work again and the hhouse they are in, which would have been suitable, isn't or won't be in a few years. All the actual additional cash costs are be aause of a medical blunder, or a series of. Hospital admit it. Sorry won't pay the bills my friend can no longer work to pay.

Cluckinghell · 07/02/2019 14:43

'My friends child will have significant physical and learning disabilities because of poor care. Mum may never be able to work again and the hhouse they are in, which would have been suitable, isn't or won't be in a few years. All the actual additional cash costs are be aause of a medical blunder, or a series of. Hospital admit it. Sorry won't pay the bills my friend can no longer work to pay.'

That's an entirely different point for me. A child needs extra care because of negligence and that's fair enough.

MatildaTheCat · 07/02/2019 14:43

OP when you ‘sue’ a person or organisation you are essentially seeking financial compensation for costs you have incurred due to their shortcomings. You may also be awarded a small sum for pain and suffering. There is no legal requirement for an apology and obviously most organisations will counter a legal case with a defence.

If, however you are seeking a proper investigation and enquiry into your case then you don’t need to sue just instigate and follow the context complaints procedure. PALS can assist.

You have plenty of time to do this so I would suggest you spend time focusing on your family and then consider a complaint later. Of course you can request a debrief at any time to voice concerns and understand decisions made, this is usually with a senior midwife who will go through your notes with you.

Mia1415 · 07/02/2019 14:48

That's an entirely different point for me. A child needs extra care because of negligence and that's fair enough.

I completely agree. Its entirely different in my view.

Original poster
NicuProblem · 07/02/2019 14:49

Any money comes from money they set aside for negligence. It's not as if it comes out of departmental budgets.

I've received crappy care before and not even thought of suing. But seeing my daughter suffer in the way she did, unnecessarily, is unacceptable. Having to Google search baby funerals at 4 days old because you're being told there's a high chance she will pass away is unacceptable when it's preventable. Having to be separated for an extended period of time from my older child when that stay could have been reduced by correct care is unacceptable. Thinking how you're going to explain to your eldest who struggles to understand, that his sister he's been looking forward to seeing has passed away, is unacceptable.

Sorry doesn't even come close to addressing what happened to her. As I said the details are very outing but it wasn't just slightly inadequate care. It was a horrific failure to act that led to some horrible consequences physically for DD and emotionally for me and DH. I am unsure if I can work again as it's very easy for something to remind me of that situation and for me to feel like I can't breathe and end up having a panic attack (which yes people know about). I wake up at night and worry she's dead.

What "risk" would he even be? Do they think he's more likely to be abusive to us if he's not there? It's a leap to go from he's not there to he's a potential abusive husband!

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 07/02/2019 14:55

My goodness, nowinder you were in such a fragile state at the time. They had the audacity to make judgements on you. Definitely make a complaint to the hospital.

Original poster
NicuProblem · 07/02/2019 15:39

It was horrible! And to think we were being monitored on top of that is so upsetting.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 07/02/2019 15:43

That probably why you wanted to access your records , you saw this.

SleepingStandingUp · 07/02/2019 15:46

What would you have them do Aero? Pretend that a Dad being there a few days a week and Mum being there a few hours a day is typical? Pretend it doesn't potentially raise some flags? Because it COULD point to an unsupportive partner, an abusive relationship, a mother experiencing PND or PTSD.

They have a duty of care to the vulberae patient to ensure that those who will be taking care of her are competent and able and have the right support.

If OP was on here saying DH visited once a week because he said he didn't want to get close to the baby unless it came home, and I only visited a few hours a day because he'd shout at me constancy for neglecting our older child, neglecting the wife work etc it would look exactly the same to the nurses. And if the nurses never noticed, didn't give a shit they'd be accused of dereliction of duty to the infant going into that environment.
So they do notice, they note down a few comments, realise that when Dad is there he's attentive and supportive, listen to Mum say how much support she has so they leave it there.

And the nurses in NICU have nothing to do with Op's case unless there's a big drip feed coming

Aeroflotgirl · 07/02/2019 15:55

If they have concerns, voice it tonop and her DH, or see if they can offer support. If they spoke to op then they would find out that she cannot drive and has to look after her other child with SN. We have heard from people working in the field, how judgemental and underhanded some NICU staff can be. Op consultant was fine with it and did not raise concerns.

Teatreealoe · 07/02/2019 16:11

YABU plenty of nicu staff and nicu parents have tried to explain that it is normal policy to observe and document visiting patterns. Nicu staff would observe, then assess whether it warranted further input. Your case obviously didn't so nothing was done about it.

I can understand why you feel a bit judged but your ignoring all the responses that are explaining why it might have been written and instead your focusing on your anger. Do definitely speak to pals, bliss or your gp for support as it's traumatic what you've been through and might help you look at it from different perspectives.

Original poster
NicuProblem · 07/02/2019 16:14

No I understand it's normal to document it apparently but they didn't document it until there's a note saying they're going to start to as dad rarely visits and mum is quiet so how is that just policy because they weren't doing it prior

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 07/02/2019 16:28

I wonder how some departments of the NHS would react if their own health workers did as the OPS DH was being expected to do and took loads of time off to go and see their prem baby.

HelenaDove · 07/02/2019 16:33

And why arent they doing more about parents who are having to live on Greggs and other junk food for weeks on end.

Because they are always bringing up how much being overweight and/or eating unhealthily costs the NHS.

Mia1415 · 07/02/2019 16:36

No I understand it's normal to document it apparently but they didn't document it until there's a note saying they're going to start to as dad rarely visits and mum is quiet so how is that just policy because they weren't doing it prior

I imagine as a nurse noticed that he rarely visits and you were quiet that they decided to log it and keep an eye.

I appreciate that you are very angry, but if you take a step back, surely you can see why they did this?

Mia1415 · 07/02/2019 16:38

I wonder how some departments of the NHS would react if their own health workers did as the OPS DH was being expected to do and took loads of time off to go and see their prem baby.

I don't think that anyone was suggesting that the OP's DH did that!

crispysausagerolls · 07/02/2019 16:50

am unsure if I can work again as it's very easy for something to remind me of that situation and for me to feel like I can't breathe and end up having a panic attack

Be reasonable

Mmmmbrekkie · 07/02/2019 16:59

A dad that rarely visits and a quiet mother (possibly coming across as withdrawn)

They are not concluding anything but they are red flags that have been proved to be sign of abuse or neglect

peridito · 07/02/2019 17:08

Fine ,but as they decided not to persue it why not add some green flags and explain why they were reassured that things were in fact ok .

Original poster
NicuProblem · 07/02/2019 17:11

crispy be reasonable about what? I don't trust anyone else to look after DD after what she went through (not related to this issue, because she was ill) and I constantly am afraid of something happening. I'm incredibly shaken by the experience I had.

How is me being quiet a sign of abuse?! Who feels like talking after going through that.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 07/02/2019 17:12

peridito because that is taken as a given and nurses should not have to spend the time doing unnecessary paperwork to appease parents.

For the most part these notes do not go to the parents so they dont need to say

OP you need to get counselling I think. I am not sure bringing a suit against them will give you what you want. I am not saying dont do it - I think forcing them to make changes to policy is a great thing but be aware it might not give you what you need

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