To wonder how many of the men in the 40% are actually being abused?

[rosiejaune]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/05/no-job-no-savings-women-fighting-economic-abuse-illegal

"It found that one in five people in the general population have experienced economic abuse, 60% of them women. The same study suggested women experience it for longer, with nearly 80% of those reporting abuse saying it lasted more than five years, compared with 23% of the men.

There was also a marked difference in what was interpreted as abuse. “Women tended to say their partners denied them money for food, rent or electricity,” says Sharp-Jeffs. “Men were more likely to say they’d been denied money for beer or hobbies.”"

I.e. is it actually that the household is struggling for money, and there just isn't enough for beer or hobbies? This then gets reframed as the woman being controlling, rather than just trying to be financially responsible.

It’s the same with physical abuse - men can experience physical abuse from women, but it’s the women dying at the hands of the men, not the other way around.

Now tell us about the research showing that if you give women money it gets spent usefully on their children and families, but if you give men money it just vanishes on ... well beer and hobbies.

wow it goes both ways there are decent men out there as much as decent women and to suggest that only women prioritise household expenses over hobbies is ludicrous and drinks of a band wagon!!

stinks*

I'm sure there are men dying at the hands of women also

You reckon?
There are five 3 women kicking the shit out of 6 foot men allover the place.

@rabbitheadlights
Definitely lots of good men out there my DH is amazing (although can be pita at times I’m sure he’d same about me)
But working in Childprotection I can tell you very few men die at the hands of female partners whilst lots of women die due to domestic violence.
It’s a horrible and sad fact.

The (far fewer) women who kill men usually do so after years of being abused by them. That is starting to be recognised in the justice system.

You're being rather #notallmen. I didn't say "only" women do the sensible thing. But I think it is telling that women are complaining of being denied the basics, while men say they are being deprived of extras (if they're even being honest about the reasons for that).

@rosiejaune
Totally agree!
I’m finding Mumsnet a bit depressing at present.

I think we deny the experiences of abused men at our peril.

I consider myself a feminist, I am well aware of the abuse women suffer, have witnessed it, experienced it, and that it's far far more likely to be men abusing women.

But I've also been involved with men who were victims on a voluntary basis and their abusers were just as bad as the male abusers and there was no reasonable provocation involved (though the usual claims by the abusers of 'they made me...' When actually all the victims had done was things the abuser didn't want them to, eg one guy had a just boiled kettle poured over him because he didn't make her tea to her liking). 1 guy was lucky to live after an attack where he was stabbed multiple times, his crime? He hadn't answered his phone immediately when she'd phoned him after he finished work.

Abuse is always wrong whoever the abuser.

Money being denied to a capable adult, especially if it's their money they've earned is abuse regardless of what they wish to spend it on. In a normal healthy relationship you discuss your budget and agree limits but one adult controlling another's expenditure is not healthy.

If one member of a couple over spends such that the family is going without essentials is financially abusive in a different way.

I suspect also that abuse of males by females is likely underreported, not to the point it's anywhere close to the levels of abuse by men on women but I do think it happens more than we realise. But then we know male on female abuse is underreported too.

Men also are reluctant to leave if there's children involved as they fear they won't be believed and the children will be left residing with the abuser and possibly be targeted instead of the ex. I know of at least one man who wouldn't leave until their DC left home as they felt they couldn't prove the abuse (emotional, financial, "careful" physical abuse - as in pain causing but leaving no marks) and that they wouldn't get residency so the DC would be vulnerable. Soon as the DC left he was out. DC then went nc with their abusive mother.

Tricky subject. But as I say I think it's wrong to deny or minimise female on male abuse.

Since when was being denied money for beer and hobbies abuse?

How the fuck is that comparable to food, rent, electricity? Where children might be in the household too?

The Guardian is so utterly facile these days.

This may be outing but as a child a male member of my family had no access to money at all. If you asked him he would have said he couldn't go to the pub ect but the reality was he had no access to cash unless it was given to him. I don't know if that's abuse but it always seemed very odd to me and very extreme.

I couldn't speak to the numbers, but coercive control doesn't depend on size or physical strength. It becomes even harder for abused men to seek help exactly because of this, people can understand a woman being motivated by fear for her physical safety but where coercive control is being used, physical threats don't even have to come into it. @Graphista the thing of staying for the sake of the children, I think there was an element of that for my dad, although he never left - he was emotionally and physically abused as a child and married young, so he never felt able to get away from his abusers. I'm very glad that slowly the profile of domestic abuse of men is rising, and it really has nothing to do with "not all men" or "men are the real victims" - it's not a competition, I know that make on female abuse is way way more common and exacerbated by economic inequality and all sorts, it's not a competition, but those of us who experience female on male domestic abuse do still exist and need help. Yeah my mum controlled the amount of money my dad had in his pocket, and no, that didn't impact on how much J

I had to eat, as my mother was responsible for doing the weekly shop - and she always made sure I was physically well cared for, as I would expect most female abusers do, because nobody is going to come knocking at your door if your children are well fed and well dressed.

I have mixed opinions on this as I have known a financialy abused man who went without shoes while his wife was spending a fortune on trivial things for herself (she would spend £300on a Pandora bracelet but he walks to work in sandles because he can't afford shoes or petrol. So I know it happens.
However according to this I am abusive. My husband has no financial control after I found out he was hiding 42k worth of debt in October. He now has a prepaid card with enough for petrol for work and about £15 extra if he needs more he has to ask. (this was his decision as well as mine.) we don't have spare money for beer and he has one hobby which at the moment we can't afford as we're paying back his debt. My aim is to be able to slowly give him more money to help him learn how to budget then to slowly get him involved in family finances again and I do not see myself as abusive because of this I'm just protecting my children from his irresponsiblity.

Women are killed by men all the time. Abuse is far more prevalent from men to women rather than the other way round. Especially physical.

However, as I have got older I have come across alot of men in relationships, where if it was the other way round would be abusive.

Examples such as

A man I know whose son play sport with mine, isn't allowed to go to the clubhouse after for the man of the match awards etc unless his wife is there. The wife is honest about it and says she doesn't like him socialising without her

My brother is a sahp and has to ask his wife for money. Despite her going away with her friends or mum several times a year. When she was the sahp, brother had holes in his shoes, again while she was going away 4 or 5 times a year for a break.

I know a man whose wife will not allow contact between him and his sister's, purely because she doesn't get on with his sisters. Nothing major has happened, they just don't get on.

My mum keeps such a tight control on the accounts that if dad draws ten pounds out he has to justify what it's been spent on it's always been like that, despite being well off

Several younger men at work (twenties) who thinkbiys normal to receive 25 texts from girlfriends, when on a night out. Or having to schedule several 1 hour video calls a day while they are on holiday.

When it's women, controlling the men it's often laughed off and joked about 'being under the thumb'. I do think we ignore abuse of men and women at our peril. Our kids, male or female are at risk of abuse when they are older.

Arguing about which sex has it worse, is pointless. Stopping it, making it unacceptable and recognisable so our kids spot the first signs when they are older and in relationships.

I've noticed this too alot of things are just seen as funny by society when it comes to men.

I know alot of abuse is towards women I have escaped an abusive relationship of 10 years but that doesn't mean other things aren't wrong.

The man I knew worked and all wages went into a joint account that he had no access to. He had no allowance or cards so had to ask to buy anything. There waa no reason for it other than the way it had been since they married. He himself laughed it off but it never sat well with me.

Hedwigsradio I think that's what stuck with me. If a woman spoke the same story it would make people uncomfortable and recognise it as abuse.

When it's men it often becomes the stuff of jokes.

That's not saying it's worse or men are in more danger.

But even on this thread, people assuming the men who complained about not having money for beer or hobbies, live in house where money has to be watched carefully. When they could be in houses that are ok for money, but they are banned from having hobbies or going out for a beer. The assumption on, a lot of the time is that if a man is banned from going out, having a hobby, wanting to do something that the woman must be right and the man must have somehow caused it or is being selfish and spending family money to the detriment of their kids and oh.

This may be outing but as a child a male member of my family had no access to money at all. If you asked him he would have said he couldn't go to the pub ect but the reality was he had no access to cash unless it was given to him. I don't know if that's abuse but it always seemed very odd to me and very extreme

Same as my Dad. He didn’t have a cash card until a few years ago and even then it was only after one of my siblings asked his why not? Even now though he wouldn’t take money out without clearing it with my Mum first. He was given a weekly amount to go to the pub etc with.

A male friend of mine has recently left his wife and disclosed that she has been emotionally abusing/controlling him to the extent that he had been having suicidal thoughts. She wouldn’t let see his mum, sisters, and missed out on the first few years of his only niece’s life. He was a mess when he left her and we know there are things he hasn’t disclosed to us yet (if he ever does)

He had to go back to the house collect some of his things the other day and was trembling and almost having a panic attack at the prospect but wouldn’t let anyone else go for him because ‘she won’t like that.’

He’s left but she still has some control over him

I actually worked with a 6foot chap who WAS abused by his significantly shorter girlfriend. We’re talking black eyes, ranting emotional attacks, stopping him doing what he wanted etc.

He was a lovely man. Hard working, kind and thoughtful. We had a couple of chats about DV and assistance for men but he always insisted he’d “walked into a door- Kim so clumsy lol”.

It’s hard for men to speak up about DV. Posts like this show why, but good to have the discussion brought out to make others aware,

That's what I find people don't seem to think it was odd. I might as well say it was my dad and I remember him being over the moon he when he could get something for the house he wanted for the first time. I did ask why once only be told it's always been like this.

I don't think the OP deserves a NAMALT response to this, she hasn't said all men are abusive or only women prioritise the correct financial commitments. I'm sure in real life, there will be a huge mixture.

But the study is interesting, the research shows that of some of the 40% of men who claim to have been financially abused, some of them described this as jot being allowed money for beer and 'hobbies'. It does beg the question how many of those men make up the 40%.

One doesn't cancel out the other. Belittling the experience of some men, however few isn't going to help build mutual support.

My ex (in retaliation) sent the police round accusing me of financial abuse. It wasn't true and no evidence was found. However, if asked in a survey had he been financially abused he would have said yes. So a survey like this I take with a pinch of salt.

75% of suicides in the UK are committed by men, there are a lot of women who are abusive to men. I think the amount of bitter narcissistic women who deny ex partners access to their children is a huge factor/problem.