To feel upset I don't get along with my Mum.

[MondeoFan]

Hi just wondering if anyone else doesn't have a good relationship with their mum. It's upsets me greatly as I think it's a shame that after all these years our relationship is still so awful.
She wasn't very loving when me and my brother were growing up and she never cuddled us or said she loved us. I know not everyone is cuddly. She had a difficult relationship with her own mother and they would go periods without talking, I think the longest was 3 or 4 years until my mums gran died and her mum got in touch to tell her then they stayed back in contact after that.

I'm mid 40s and my mum still tries to tell me what to do. If I don't agree she won't talk to me. That says to me that she is trying to treat me the same way her own mum treated her even though she knows it's hurtful. I'm so bored of it, I'm bored of always having to chase her every single time she doesn't talk to me, it's always me that has to say sorry even though I feel i did nothing wrong.
She hasn't been talking to me for a month now over my dads birthday and as a result they didn't turn up my my DD birthday party the next day.
I sent her birthday cards for yesterday and sent her a text, but nothing so I guess she's ignoring me.
I have 2 DD and would never treat them like this. I'm the total opposite and always cuddle them and tell them I love them.
My 2 DD are not close to their grandparents as they don't phone them or take them out although I do take my 2 DD to visit them normally once a month or 6 weeks.
I don't want to cut my mum off completely as I worry that if they die and we haven't seen each other how would I feel? How would I feel I didn't see them in their final years?
But I just don't know what to do anymore. Should I carry on apologising and biting my tongue so my girls can continue to have a relationship with their grandparents or should I just accept my mum is cold and unforgiving and unloving and just leave her to it?

I'm so sorry OP, that sounds really upsetting. I get on quite well with my Mum but as we live so far apart, when we do see her we tend to stay for a week/weeks/months at a time. It's very hard as she really babies me, which feels suffocating when I am in my 30's with 2 children of my own. I like her but don't often find I enjoy her company. A lot of our relationship feels like an obligation to me, which makes me feel terrible as my siblings and I are her life, but I think that's the problem.
Sorry, no help but lots of sympathy for confusing feelings regarding the mother/daughter relationship.

YANBU OP. Having a bad relationship or no relationship with a parent (especially a mother IMO) is horribly painful. I found it most difficult after having my own child, as I knew then what a mother is 'supposed' to feel for her children, and couldn't see how my mum could feel that way about me and still behave the way she did.

Now I've lost her, I appreciate more that she was very ill in her mind, and couldn't help the things she did in many ways. But it hurt, and still hurts.

Counselling may enable you to make peace with the fact she'll never be the mother you needed and wanted and start to heal the wound; once that's done you will probably find it easier to take her as she comes. I only did this after my mother's death so never got the chance to bring that progress to our relationship though, so not sure if it can really make it easier to face the day to day reality.

Hi @MondeoFan I didn't want to read and run but sadly I have no advice for you.
I haven't and am not in that position with my own DM but I can imagine how hurt you must be. I think you should just concentrate on all that love you have to give your own DC and let your mother stew in her own unlovingness.
Speak to her when you have to but don't try too hard, that way, when she goes go, you have absolutely no reason to feel any guilt

This sounds very similar to my relationship with my Mother. I sent cards etc for Christmas, she didn't send anything for DC. I'd be less bothered if she'd simply ignored me, but doing that to my DC felt quite unpleasant.

Like your Mother, she wasn't particularly affectionate as I was growing up. She could also be quite emotionally manipulative and didn't appear to have a great handle on her stress responses. If I said I missed my dad or wanted to see him at the weekend following their divorce she'd say I was ungrateful for everything she'd done for me and generally make me feel guilty about wanting to spend time with him.

Like you, if I don't do as my Mother asks then I am in for months of being ignored and ostracised. Just a small example, I went on holiday recently and a friend asked me to get her some cigarettes. I agreed. My Mother then asked if I could get her some and I said my customs allowance was already taken up by the friend's request. The result was lots of passive-aggressive Facebook memes, pictures of my siblings saying "this is all the family I need", and the current stint of ongoing silence.

In all honesty, there is no easy answer to this. It sounds as though not having much contact for your own sanity could have an effect on your relationship with your Dad as well? For me, this was never an issue (because of the divorce).

I'd highly recommend finding a counsellor who has experience in helping people who may want to go No Contact (NC) with a parent. They don't encourage you to reach that point, but they do help you explore the absolute sh*t storm of emotions that comes with being in your situation.

My stance has been to maintain minimal contact. I don't do any chasing and I don't pander to her desire to cause problems and then act like a victim. At the same time, I don't tell her to go away if she does get in touch. I'm not sure what would be right for you, but this is what causes the least drama for me and my DC.

It's genuinely a naff situation to be in. Having your own kids can make all of this bubble to the surface. Really give the counselling option some thought, because unpicking your emotions surrounding this by yourself can feel very frustrating and lonely!

Yes I think counselling might be a good idea as this has been building up for ages. I'd even go so far as to say as a result I've always chosen the wrong men in my life to be with as I think I felt unloved, and I jumped in feet first with the first person that showed me any affection.
I can understand it isn't totally her fault as it's how she was brought up so she thinks it's completely normal to behave in this way but surely you'd want a relationship with your own daughter to be better? Surely she could have made that change if she wanted? I have a brother too he's 3 years younger and he was always her fave growing up and still is, but her mum was the same and favoured the brother more than her.
It's like history repeating itself.
She never asks how my girls are, I just think she's not that interested in them to be honest, I don't think she's a child orientated person.
I love my girls and would do anything for them. I enjoy spending time with them both equally and 1 is a teenager and 1 is only 3 but I literally look forward to their birthdays, taking them on holiday, baking and it's so hurtful to see my mum not even asking how eldest is getting on at school or how youngest is.

timetoriseandshine

Yes I think you're right, this is what I've been doing all this time concentrating on my own DDs and I think/hope we won't have the same problems as we all get older. If my DD didn't phone me I'd be on the phone to them. My mum is happy for me to do all the running.
She's only 68 so not elderly, but what can I do if she gets the hump with me so frequently. I'm not a terrible daughter, I do work, I don't have any drug or drink habits etc, I drive, I just want the best for my girls. I'm wondering if a bit of it is jealousy?

Namestheyareachangin

And how did you feel once your mum passed? I feel so much love for my girls and I think the same as you, wow this is how it's supposed to be, this is what real love feels like and how wonderful it is.

I definitely agree that the effects of growing up with a parent who behaves like this can affect our adult relationships! It's taken me a long, long time to not see danger around every corner and to stop being the ultimate people pleaser.
If you have any friends who are in a similar situation you might find it helpful to talk with them as well. It's amazing how far a bit of empathy can go when you're feeling like this!

My mum killed herself this year OP so I struggle with a lot of guilt. With her it wasn't emotional unavailability - quite the opposite, the overshare and emotional dependence was stifling and gave me a lot of issues with boundaries and feeling responsible for everything and everyone - but her love and affection was totally conditional on me doing and saying whatever she wanted, support her emotionally or financially, if I ever challenged her behaviour or her version of events where she was blameless always she would withdraw emotionally and ghost me and make me worry about her. So as well as grief there was also a sense of relief which filled me with self-hatred. I'm working through it. The hardest thing is to let go of the idea her behaviour (or suicide) was my fault, that if I'd been or done better she would have been a good mother (which for me really just means she would have d been happy). Counselling helped me to accept I wasn't to blame and was basically powerless to prevent her depression or make her love me more. That acceptance is what I hope to build my recovery on.

Namestheyareachangin

So sorry to hear this. Did you have any Pre warning that she might do this? Has she said in the past anything to give you an indication she might do it?
Do you have any siblings?

SpeedbirdFoxtrot

Yes I know what you mean. All my friends seem to have wonderful relationships with their mothers which makes it more hurtful. They do spa days together, their mums have given them money to buy flats and houses, regularly have their grandchildren to stay over, mine have never stayed over once.
One of my closest friends speaks to her mum about 2 or 3 times a day and she lives in another country!
My mum never phones me so if she did call I'd think it was because something was wrong like with my dad etc
She does text but keeps the texts very short and blunt so they can come across as rude even though I know they aren't meant that way E.g Me-Hi Mum was going to pop over for a while today with the girls if you and dad aren't off out? Her- "fine"
Me Hi Mum how are you? It's been snowing here this morning do you have any snow? Her - "yep"

Read the books "Healing the Child Within"
and also "You're not Crazy It's Your Mother" - both super helpful and illuminating. I'm sure they're on Amazon.

Definitely get some therapy / counselling as it will help you to understand the impact of your upbringing on your life choices, and stop investing / wasting energy on her game playing and be an even more brilliant mum to your own DC.

Xx

Thanks OP. I do have a sister who had less of a relationship with our mum - she lost patience with her basically years ago, they'd speak now and again on the phone but would go years without seeing each other. In some ways I think it's harder for her.

Plenty of "warning" - she was very public about her mental health, told me and my sister often about her several suicide attempts and often spoke about her suicidal feelings, I have memories of these conversations since I was at least 8 maybe younger. She was having a hard time with the breakdown of her marriage (not my dad) and with money and her health. I was doing what I could but had recently had my daughter and was struggling with renewed feelings of anger and upset that my mum was so un-mum-like - my friends who had babies' mums would come and look after them, look after their babies, give them advice - whereas I was a ftm, half mad with sleep deprivation, trying to counsel a 60 year old woman with the emotional issues and self awareness of a troubled teenager. So I wasn't there for her in the "drop everything" way I always had been before when her mental health took a turn for the worse. I didn't realise how severe her depression was on this occasion. I missed it. I honestly believe if her latest crisis hadn't coincided with me becoming a mum for the first time it might not have ended up being the one that finished her off. This is where the guilt come in really.

But no matter how much I might have expected it, you don't really. There's this bit in Buffy The Vampire Slayer (high culture ) where Buffy's mum has died an a friend who also lost her mum is trying to empathise. Buffy asks the friend "was it sudden?" and the friend says "oh no, no. And yes." The knowledge it could happen, even was likely, didn't really change the horror of it when it really did.

Anyway in hijacking your thread (emotional incontinence clearly hereditary!). I just wanted to say it is rubbish, you feel abandoned even when they're in the room with you. It's a primal wound, as children we need to feel safe and loved, if we don't resolve that lack we limp through life with a fundamental emotional lack. Totally believe you re the picking bad men, my relationships have suffered hugely from my lack of self esteem and sense of security. I'd really recommend counselling, even saying some if it to an independent person and realisibg how not right it is can help a lot. Good luck! Xx

Namestheyareachangin

Wow that's a real eye opener. Sorry to hear about your Mum, I'm glad your understanding of everything has helped you.
Thanks was lovely to talk to you. I'll def try the counselling.
I had CBT couple years ago, but that was more about how to cope with anxiety and they didn't want to hear about the past particularly or what led me to be anxious in the first place. X

CBT type stuff could help but talking therapy is required before you can get to that place in my experience. X

gonnabe40

How do I even go about finding the right counsellor? Man or Woman better?
Where do they advertise? 1 session per week enough?

I have a terrible relationship with my Mum too OP.

In fact I have been thinking about posting a thread all day as I saw her at the weekend and it did not go well.

My Mum seems to want to live in a fantasy world where she is always right and everything is all lovey dovey and cosey and everybody talks about fluffy bunnies and nobody ever feels down or has an issue or anything.

She lives miles and miles away and I only see her once in a while.

This weekend I was recounting a childhood toy at my Grandparents house (she HATED them even though she bigs up her own grandma status) and she got annoyed because she felt that I was remembering it wrong and then she told me that I was obviously talking about the "wrong" thing.

I said, very mildly "no, not talking about the wrong thing - just talking about "different" things"...

... that is enough standing up to my Mum to piss her off.

She went all huffy and when she left I was in the kitchen washing up and had my hands full of water - she just shouted through "bye then" as she was walking out the front door.

I commented to my DH that she might never see me again (she's old and there is distance involved) and that's how she left it - over that comment?!

I find her really childish and difficult but then you get all this "you only get one Mum" etc.

She too had a terrible relationship with her own Mum - to the point where she didn't go to her Mum's funeral...

... I like to think I have broken the cycle with my own daughter.

I have similar with my father. His twin brother was by far his parents' favourite and it damaged him emotionally. I didn't realise how much until I asked him for some reassurance about our relationship, then he had a massive go at me.

I see now that he's never supported me emotionally. He gets grumpy if he doesn't have things his way/for no reason then doesn't see what he's done wrong. I'm never entirely relaxed with him and as a result flick between being glad I have the excuse of living 6 hours away to not visit often and feeling guilty for not visiting.

Sorry, than was an essay. Summary: I too have a shit relationship with a parent and feel jealous of friends who get on well with theirs.

I always thought I had a clear-eyed view of my parents as parents, but it's only since I had children and they've approached their teens that I realise how terrible particularly my mother was as a parent. Critical, cold, lashing out, always cutting me off or talking very publicly about my flaws to friends and family, from when I was very young.

We're NC at the moment and I veer minute-to-minute between sadness that my mother doesn't like me now and didn't then, and relief that I don't have to see her. Really don't know how I'd feel if she died right now.

From friends, agree that therapy is always a good idea.

The worst thing is, my daughter is now 2 and I just adore her, everything she says and does delights me, when she's upset I feel her pain now matter how trivial... And I just don't understand how a parents gets from here to there. And because I don't know, I'm terrified it will happen without my realising, always thinking I'm right and doing the right things, whilst slowly losing my daughter's trust and love. I feel like I've not seen it done right, so I may end up doing it wrong without even realising.

SuperSaturday

How long you been NC for? Do you have siblings?
Yes my mum is all of those things but doesn't bad mouth me to family members as my mum is a very much keeping up appearances type of character and wouldn't let others know anything was going on.
I on the other hand have confided in cousins in the past about my mum incase they think it's weird that we don't see each other more. Sometimes my cousins ask what days does your mum have DC and I have to say she doesn't.
And at Xmas I always take my DDs to Panto etc and my mum doesn't come.

Namestheyareachangin
Yes I feel the same, I think I'm proper parenting but could be doing it all wrong.
I work in a nursey and try and bring my 2 DD up like that. "Firm but Fair" and "Being a good role model"
I take notice of homework and read bedtime stories and cuddle them when they cry, sit and listen when they are upset, try and teach them the value of money and most of all tell them I love them. I think if they know they are loved they can deal with anything that's thrown at them.
I just hope I don't suffocate them with too much love haha

I'm very similar OP. DM grew up as the scapegoat in a narcissistic family (her mother was a raging narc). As a result this has made her sulky, passive aggressive, unpredictable, controlling and hyper sensitive to any kind of perceived slight or criticism. I get that it must have been bloody awful to grow up in that kind of environment, but honestly its not my problem. She could have made a conscious decision to parent differently but she won't, she could get counselling to help her work through her issues but she won't. Emotionally she is stuck as a very young child, huffing, pouting and giving us all hurt little looks when things don't go her way. It's hard work, and I find being around her draining because I can't truly me be in her presence.

We get a long fine so long as I do as she says and never disagree with her. I no longer discuss personal stuff with her because she cant handle any emotions other than her own and she is horribly self absorbed and negative. Recently we thought my Dad might need to have a big operation and I swear all she did was complain and moan about the impact it would have on her, not him. It was jaw dropping selfish, but that is her. To have challenged her and told her it was not all about her would have resulted in a tantrum and a sulk and it's just not worth it.

I don't have kids, partly because I'm scared I'll repeat the same mistakes.

I just hope I don't suffocate them with too much love haha

Haha, I worry the same!!

TBH I think there is a difference between giving love and smothering love. My mum did give me love, but in a way that felt full of pressure - she'd tell me I was her best friend and her 'only reason to stay in this shitty world' sometimes. But I didn't want to be her best friend or her reason to live, I wanted to be her daughter. I wanted her to look after me and make me feel safe.

So I'm going to try to just be responsive to my daughter. To offer love always, but not demand attention or for her to love me and prove it all the time. I'm not sure how to draw that line between letting her no she's the most important thing in the world to me but not make her feel like she has to 'be there' for me or give my life meaning. How to let her know that her happiness is all I want without making her feel like she can't mess up or be sad.

And that's just it - I feel people who grew up with 'normal' parents would just love their child and never think about this crap

I could have written this, OP. My Mum has never shown me any love and I've had a lot of counselling to try to re wire my fucked up emotional intelligence as a result of her treatment. My entire adult life has been either periods of NC or me doing all the running with her answering the phone like, 'what do you want'... I have no doubt it's impeded my ability to have normal friendships and relationships. Recently my DS and I went to stay with her between Christmas & New Year and we ended up having a blazing row which involved her saying I was a spoiled brat as a kid, I was literally speechless, it couldn't be any further from the truth, I have a DS but am afraid it's NC from now on, she's broken my heart so many times I just bear to be around her any more. Sending love and solidarity xx