Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask for help with PIP descriptors and regulations?

79 replies

PandasandPenguins · 03/02/2019 08:28

I have an upcoming PIP tribunal and I’m so nervous Sad

I had my whole award removed after a face to face assessment (report was completely inadequate but was used in favour of actual medical evidence from an actual specialist Hmm)

The PIP regulations state that a person should be able to complete a descriptor safely , in a timely manner and reliably .

In my medical evidence it specifically states that I might be able to complete an activity in the am , but not in the pm due to worsening fatigue.

In spite of arguing this point all throughout , I’m going to tribunal .

Based on this regulation - do I have a chance ?

I’m so nervous I don’t want to go if there’s no chance of winning for fear of looking like a liar or fraud Blush (I’m not! I’ve been honest throughout).

Thoughts ?

OP posts:
starfishmummy · 05/02/2019 11:03

ChristmasFlary apart from all the rigmarole of filling in a new form and waiting for the decision, we didn't find our son's transition from DLA to PIP any more stressful than the regular DLA renewals.
And we clearly provided enough evidence from professional sources as he has never been called for an assessment.

ChristmasFlary · 05/02/2019 12:06

Starfish - my son was awarded DLA from age 9 - 16yrs without renewal required so this will be my first time

Home77 · 05/02/2019 12:15

Please all of you how are struggling do take them to Appeal, it seems they only look at it properly at that stage at times. Don't give up.

BlankTimes · 05/02/2019 12:57

Home77 " Not sure whether to take whatever they offer or continue with the appeal as might get a better award.

Settling for a lesser award when the opportunity of a review also comes with the caveat that you could lose everything at any reconsideration is a horrible situation to be in and one in my opinion that disabled people should not have to face. Many aren't strong enough to go through that.

Good Luck PerkingFaintly Tribunal is nothing like dealing with the DWP.

starfishmummy I'm pleased that you found it an easy experience. Some certainly do, I think it's a combination of medical evidence and an assessor who is familiar with the conditions the disabled person has.

Home77 · 05/02/2019 15:09

Yes, it was too stressful for me last time and we did a Paper appeal which overturned it, was so glad we did and got it back again. It is a shame people don't appeal I think as DWP treat people badly and that isn't put right.

Home77 · 05/02/2019 15:09

But is is meant to be better not to do Paper appeals ours maybe succeeded as had good evidence on paper and also ESA decisions etc.

McNeat · 05/02/2019 18:32

If you have an ESA decision always submit that too!

PerkingFaintly · 05/02/2019 21:11

OMG, really, McNeat?

I've had ESA for more than 10 years, but my most recent decision letter isn't this year.

What should I take along to the tribunal?

McNeat · 05/02/2019 23:00

@PerkingFaintly whether you're WRAG or SG & the ESA85

PerkingFaintly · 05/02/2019 23:15

Ah, thanks. Don't know off the top of my head what the ESA85 is, but I keep everything so can probably find it.

I get contribution-based ESA... er, I think that means I'm Support Group, but they've changed the regs so often since I got ill I can't keep up. Of course it was actually Incapacity Benefit, not ESA, when got sick.

Anyway, I'm not WRAG...

starfishmummy · 05/02/2019 23:51

Perking if you're not WRAG then you're support group!

PerkingFaintly · 06/02/2019 00:25

Just found the papers. Yep, thanks, Support Group.

God, that's made me want to wash.

I've just been re-reading the attempt by the Atos assessor to stitch me up for ESA. Reading people lying about and misrepresenting you is not very nice.

Brrrr.

Nice cups of Brew all round, for lovely thread people.

AnotherEmma · 06/02/2019 06:56

You can be on contributory ESA or income-based ESA

And you can be in the support group or WRAG

They're separate things

MyNameIsArthur · 06/02/2019 07:14

Well done OP. That's great news. Makes me feel positive as am waiting for DWP to let me know the result of my review assessment

Home77 · 06/02/2019 09:59

Yes, on the phone to DWP they used the ESA award length I think in looking at PIP. In support group too. Maybe could send a copy to Appeals so they get it in advance, they copy things to DWP also.

Original poster
PandasandPenguins · 06/02/2019 10:58
Sad

I’ve just looked at the paperwork and realised that it has only been awarded until 2021 from 2018.

3 years but with the backdated year included .

This means that in a year I’m going to have to go through the whole saga again aren’t I ? Sad

DWP will call me for face to face and remove my points and then I’ll have to appeal and wait a further year .

Feeling bittersweet.

OP posts:
McNeat · 06/02/2019 11:50

When you go to the f2f take your ESA & tribunal decision and submit it with your application. Also write on you application "My conditions have not changed. The emphasis is upon the DWP to demonstrate that my conditions, ADLs and Mobility needs having improved"

Home77 · 06/02/2019 17:31

Yes. In my online appeal form I said that also. That was when they called and changed it back. BTW the Appeals form is online now and very easy to use. They just email the DWP telling them to respond, and then email you with updates. I was going to do a paper appeal as they had no grounds to stop it, and thought it would be quicker (last time my paper appeal only took 4 weeks and they sent the papers to a court miles away).

BlankTimes · 07/02/2019 13:21

Pandas is the short award because your condition is considered to be one that may improve?

My relative's was awarded for "It is inappropriate to fix a term" and DWP can look again in 10 years but not sure if the whole process will need to be done again then, or if there's no change, it will be renewed, will have to wait to find out I guess.

irunlikeahipoo · 07/02/2019 16:53

I’ve helped a few people with pip appeals who all won at tribunal
What I’ve always found useful to point out to the tribunal is to use some of the following words
So as you can see

My doctor,
my consultant
the enablement Center that provides me with a wheelchair
The assessor for ESA all agree that I am disabled / suffer from xxx
In fact anyone who has given you support mention them
If you have a blue badge take a copy of it as well

And finnish with The only people that don’t agree is DWP / PIP. But all the other professional HCP all agree that I have xxx

And yes to taking any previous ESA /PIP / tribunal awards as although the descriptors are different it shows that you have been assessed as not able to work

HotChocolateLover · 02/04/2019 12:32

I get higher rate mobility, nothing for care weirdly even though I need it. Anyway, when answering questions for every single one I said: On a good day I can do this, on a bad day I can do that. When it got to my interview I didn’t move on from each question until I had fully explained what I could and couldn’t do. I talked about whether I felt tired, achey, anxious, needed prompting. Imagine you’re explaining it to a 5 year old.

HotChocolateLover · 02/04/2019 12:43

Sorry should have read the thread. Yay!!! Glad you got it.

PerkingFaintly · 02/04/2019 13:07

Just coming to update...

I WON!!!!

McNeat's advice to send in the proof of previous awards of DLA and ESA (the ESA85) was excellent – they panel referred to them and clearly put some weight on them.

I also found the Subject Access Request I did on the DWP very useful, as I was able to point to where the decision-maker's notes showed she just hadn't bothered applying some of the criteria.

I can't remember how long I was in there – it felt like about 40 mins. It was not a nice experience, but not much worse than dealing with the Atos medicals.

I was very unwell the week of the tribunal and after, and have been waiting for the DWP to actually pay me. And now they have!

This makes life possible. Even with the heating off most days, the sums weren't adding up without the DLA/PIP. (I've also got a review of ESA coming up, so it could all still go off the rails, but hey ho.)

So very big ThanksThanksThanks to everyone on this thread for all your help. Especially McNeat, you StarStarStar.

darkriver19886 · 02/04/2019 13:10

Congratulations @perkingfaintly!

Good to see some good news.

BlankTimes · 15/04/2019 18:33

Very belated congrats on your PIP success Perkingfaintly, I missed your update, fabulous news Flowers