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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think unconditional offers need to banned

85 replies

Debbie99hastings · 02/02/2019 13:26

For those who haven't received grades.

Dc2 has had all there ucas offers back, predicted ABB/BBB. He had had offers in this range from two Russell groups and two non russell groups that also rank highly to study law. However he has also had an unconditional for a ex poly in the southeast which although saying it is a BCC course let's people in with CCD and DDC etc.

Ds wants to put this as his firm choice, he is almost adamant of it despite being capable of achieving entry into some good law schools. It is driving me mad, how can I change his mind. Law is so competitive he won't have great prospects with this uni.

I understand the unconditional may relieve his stress but it was never his favourite in the first place, it was a worst case scenario option.

Aibu to think this is a great marketing ploy for bad unis to attract students in a time of high competition between unis.

My collegues daughter got into the ABB uni with two grades lower and got in so he has a great chance of getting in.

OP posts:
Beerflavourednipples · 02/02/2019 17:40

It's so funny, the only place I have ever heard about 'Russell Group' universities is Mumsnet, and according to the list, I went to one!

Armadillostoes · 02/02/2019 18:09

I am a lawyer and can assure you that rightly or wrongly he will struggle to get a training contract or a seat in chambers if he has a less respected university on his CV. Also he will not be as stretched by the course.

All in all the easy option now is a terrible idea. That said, if he wants to avoid work and pressure, don't enter the legal profession. If he is just studying law as a good and interesting degree that is different, but his plans are not great if he wants to be a solicitor or barrister.

Jimdandy · 02/02/2019 18:15

@Racecardriver and others that is absolute bull shit that the top unis spout to you. It is mostly true for Barristers but Solicitors no. You do not need to have a training contract secured by the end of your second year.

I went to a glorified polytechnic, after not doing a levels (I did a GNVQ) and then when I graduated I got a job as a paralegal.

After a few years they contributed for me to do my LPC and gave me a training contract.

Loads of people on the part time LPC have done the same thing.

SonataDentata · 02/02/2019 18:16

My sister got the highest first in her year from a top five university. She spent a year looking for a training contract and got ONE offer. That’s how competitive law is these days.

SonataDentata · 02/02/2019 18:18

I also work in a legal profession and Jimdandy’s experience is not typical these days. I have seen many people search for a training contract for over a decade and get only paralegal temping work.

UsedtobeFeckless · 02/02/2019 18:37

Can l second the take-a-year-out-as-a-breather-and-apply-with-actual-grades-in-hand suggestion of a previous poster?
DS is in a similar position, he's had two unconditional-if-firm offers after interviews at lower ranking unis but has decided to stick to his guns and go for the AAB from the better one, even though this is higher than his predicted grades as if it all goes horribly wrong he's taking a year out so he can have another go in six months time!

Armadillostoes · 02/02/2019 18:49

Jimdandy-the profession has changed a LOT in its approach to offering training contracts. Your experience is a much rarer than if was.

It does depend on the firm, but some places will keep paralegals for years, dangling the possibility of a training contract in front of them, but never delivering. Thankfully, that kind of exploration is not universal, but it does go on. Also when the SQE comes into being the market will change yet again. Pretending that a young person isn't damaging their chances by choosing a Less well regarded university would be irresponsible.

Asdf12345 · 02/02/2019 18:54

I had unconditional offers plus unconditional offers with scholarships attached years back when I applied. I still didn’t accept them, as I was confident I could get at least AAB for my back up choice. I’m not sure what has changed in the interim to make the idea of unconditional offers a bad thing?

Racecardriver · 02/02/2019 18:55

@Jimdandy do you know how oversaturated the jobs market is these days? This almost never happens anymore. Same goes for silex. Both are a rarity at decent firms. Anobbiously snall regional outfits don’t pay enough to support a family. Training contracts/pupilage are essential nowadays. You don’t necessarily have to get one in your second year. A lot of people will do a masters in between.

user1471426142 · 02/02/2019 20:23

It does young people no favours to minimise how hard the graduate market is at the moment. I work in a non legal field (so assume law is even more competitive). Every year I get hundreds of applications for entry level grad roles from straight A students. I can afford to be picky and end up sifting on institution, a-levels and often GCSEs. All the grads I take on have huge amounts of extra circular activities, society stuff etc. Taking a foot of the gear at a-levels could cost young people jobs later down the line and I don’t know if enough people appreciate that.

DareDevil223 · 02/02/2019 20:31

The Office for Students have shown a lot of interest in the effect of unconditional offers on students. It's worth a look.

www.officeforstudents.org.uk/publications/unconditional-offers-serving-the-interests-of-students/

emzw12 · 02/02/2019 20:33

University of Nottingham have just announced they're no longer offering any unconditional offers....
Others will now follow.

sollyfromsurrey · 03/02/2019 00:11

Top Uni's including St Andrews, Bath, Loughborough, Sussex, UEA, Reading and Surrey are all NOT Russell Group and are ranked well above Queens Belfast, Queen Mary's, Sheffield, Leeds and others who are RG. People need to stop believing the RG PR. They are a consortium who pay to belong. Not a quality ranking.

JasperKarat · 03/02/2019 00:49

If he's looking for an easy option that's stress free, a law career probably isn't for him

MidniteScribbler · 03/02/2019 01:45

My son is settling on a very poor uni due to the unconditional which is the problem.

Your son's laziness is the problem, not the offer. But it sounds like he is one of this generation where nothing is ever their fault and mummy will fix everything.

billybullshitterz1 · 03/02/2019 01:50

What about unconditional offers for mature students returning to education with the required grades in the bag?

daisypond · 03/02/2019 09:58

Solly I usually think when people refer to RG universities, they generally actually mean anything that was a university as opposed to a former polytechnic, so the term "RG" would include most of the universities you mention, even if they technically aren't. My solicitor friend who did the sift for training contracts, in addition to wanting three As at A level, also wanted the applicant to have gone to a top-ten university for their subject, so depending on what you studied, that could mean a wealth of universities, including the newer universities.
Unconditional offers for students who already have the required grades - because they're mature students or who have worked previously - are a completely different ballgame and are fine

Jaxhog · 03/02/2019 13:17

The Russell group is not every former university - there are only 24.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Group

I also agree that your son's laziness is the problem. Perhaps a competitive career like Law isn't for him.

And yes, there's nothing wrong with unconditional offers for those who already have their results. Just for lazy students who haven't and then slack off or drop out.

cantkeepawayforever · 03/02/2019 13:59

Jaxhog,

I think daisypond knows that the RG is in fact a very limited (and self-selected) group.

However, in 'common parlance' what people tend to "mean" when they say "RG" as a shorthand is 'those universities which have always been universities'. They're not thinking 'Is this one of the 24?'; they are thinking 'Is this an 'older university' or 'a former polytechnic'?'

Of course, that is still a huge generalisation - for certain courses, or even overall, some of the former polytechnics well outrank 'older universities'. But in our 'heirarchy-ridden' education system (private better than state; grammars better than comprehensives; 'leafy' comprehensives better than 'urban' ones), such nuances based on actual quality of education are often over-ridden by perception.

I would also say that unconditional offers based on a genuine test of suitability for the course (I refer to my previous examples of music conservatoires and old-fashioned Oxbridge entrance based on Oxbridge exams) are not an issue either.

MyLearnedFriend · 03/02/2019 16:45

I know many lawyers who went to ex polys. I’m one of them. Didn’t matter a jot.

justasking111 · 03/02/2019 16:48

How old are you my learned friend?

Are too many students going into law, do we know how many places are offered each year. How many lawyers do we need?

justasking111 · 03/02/2019 16:50

Have found some law student statistics.

www.lawsociety.org.uk/law-careers/becoming-a-solicitor/entry-trends/

justasking111 · 03/02/2019 16:54

And some more makes depressing reading.

www.legalcheek.com/2015/04/law-degree-student-numbers-rocket-by-nearly-20-despite-still-hard-job-market/

justasking111 · 03/02/2019 16:56

My DC wanted to do a certain course. On speaking to one person at the uni. I was told there were too many students and too few paying jobs worldwide let alone in the UK. So DS side stepped into another course, did a degree then a masters. After that he was able to find a job.

Satsumaeater · 03/02/2019 17:07

Nearly 30 years Oxford was making unconditional offers (2 E's). I really don't get the whole controversy about them.