To think unconditional offers need to banned

[Debbie99hastings]

For those who haven't received grades.

Dc2 has had all there ucas offers back, predicted ABB/BBB. He had had offers in this range from two Russell groups and two non russell groups that also rank highly to study law. However he has also had an unconditional for a ex poly in the southeast which although saying it is a BCC course let's people in with CCD and DDC etc.

Ds wants to put this as his firm choice, he is almost adamant of it despite being capable of achieving entry into some good law schools. It is driving me mad, how can I change his mind. Law is so competitive he won't have great prospects with this uni.

I understand the unconditional may relieve his stress but it was never his favourite in the first place, it was a worst case scenario option.

Aibu to think this is a great marketing ploy for bad unis to attract students in a time of high competition between unis.

My collegues daughter got into the ABB uni with two grades lower and got in so he has a great chance of getting in.

I recruit trainee solicitors for a major international commercial law firm. We have an A'Level requirement of AAB and have a number of target universities though clearly we recruit from a broader range. It is becoming more and more competitive to secure a training contract. We interview c.5% of applicants for vacation schemes.

Depending on where he wants to end up he needs to think really hard about this decision. Feel free to PM me.

Oh and my University was an ex poly but managed to forge a successful law career. My cousins went to the same uni and are both millionaires in a completely different field. Funny that isn’t it as some of you are so snobby and sneering about none Russell unis.

I had an effectively unconditional offer of EE to go to UCL to read physics (this was 20 years ago). They wrote to my school to tell them thinking it was an honour but I got called into see the head who told me “this is the worst thing that could possibly have happened - you’re a lazy and complacent little shit as you well know and you’ll completely stop trying now”. He was right.

Went to Imperial instead in the end though

When choosing between different universities and courses theres a bit more to consider than just whether it was a conditional or unconditional or what grades they asked for. These grades won't matter once you are there.

Your child has to examine the campus, facilities, library, student association and culture of the university to make sure that it is right for them. It is also important to make sure that the teaching staff will actually care and drive your Childs education. Going to open days and meeting the academics that will be teaching them will show whether they will care or not and how dedicated they are to giving feedback and encouraging students to learn and advance in their education.

I really hate it when people just put a university down because of a name or assume that a high ranking university is better when they may more strict and not give the best care. It is also really hard to give proper advice without the names of the schools, their rankings etc. Also, how does that department rank. I have found from speaking to students who attend high ranking schools in Scotland that they have had a very challenging experience where the lecturers are hard and do not give as much support. All experiences have not been bad but you do not need to do a Russell Group university to get an excellent education and get a good job.

The other consideration is that you really need to compare the models taught in each degree and analysis what exactly your child will be studying and whether it is all core models or whether they get to choose certain modules as electives. I think it is important to have that sense of flexibility.

I think you should discuss these factors, look into what I said and do this with your child as they will be the one studying this, not you. It sounds like you are putting pressure on your child to go to a top school when you are not the one doing it! Lastly, there is also the option to do a masters degree at a higher university upon graduation. Employers do not look at your undergraduate degree much if you have a masters.

Imissgmichael

As did dh and his university friends - solicitors and barristers all over the country. DH got a training contract fairly easily, made equity partnership fairly young in a city, but not London, form and brings home a substantial income as a solicitor, doing a job he loves. He earns way more than any of the 'top' university solicitors at his firm, mainly as he is very good at bringing money in. Though that skill has little to do with any qualification.

However, I suspect things have moved on in more recent years. DH finished university over 30 years ago. I suspect competition is much greater now based on what DH says about the new solicitors they have coming in for training contracts and newly qualified posts.

These grades won't matter once you are there - this isn't true. This is law we're talking about, and the grades do matter.

It is really tough to become a solicitor now. The bigger firms usually only recruit from a handful of the top universities and yes will look at A-levels as well as degree class (no less than 2:1). It is much more common as well for law firms to focus on the students who have completed summer placements with them during their time at university.

I have a friend who works as a legal executive and many of the people she works with are law graduates (who also have their LPCs) and have had zero joy in getting a training contract anywhere, let alone with the big corporate law firms.

Daisypond I was offered a training contract with a major city law firm without A levels. Quite a few of the people I studied with obtained TCs in London. A friend of my son has just obtained a TC in London as did many of his friends, despite going to a non Russell ex poly.

I had an 'unconditional' EE offer from Exeter many years ago. I remember it worrying my parents, but I went on to get AAA anyway.

What worries me now is the undesirable unis making unconditional offers. My friend's daughter ended up at Plymouth because of this, didn't work hard and got DEE and effectively reduced her options to zilch if she changed her mind.

Isn't the idea of offers being made after results come out currently under consideration?

This way all offers would be based on actual grades achieved rather than predicted grades.

It would require some retiming of exams/results/start of university

If he wants an easy, stress-free route, he's not going to have a career as a lawyer anyway.

@daisypond

What I meant was that the grades you are required to get are just to see how you will cope with the challenges of university and the workload. They are there to gauge how students will work and whether they can meet the standards required.

However, once students are there these grades will A level or Highers will no longer be mentioned. The way your assignments are grades, the way you are taught and write in university is completely different from school. Its like starting all over again. perhaps you did not understand what I meant but you picked one sentence from my very long post and took this out of context.

I also think it depends on context, and wehat preceded the unconditional offer.

Many, many moons ago, I had an unconditional offer - two Es for funding purposes - for Oxbridge. To get it, I sat entrance exams and was interviewed.

DS is sitting on an unconditional offer for music conservatoire. Again, to get it he was auditioned and interviewed.

Should those 'conditional on something other than A-levels' unconditional offers be banned as well?

I would focus on why your DS is so swayed by unconditional offers, because many students aren't (or not to the same extent - as in, it might tip the balance between two equal choices, but not bring a 5th choice up to 1st). If it is to do with feeling overly stressed by the 'conditional' offers, consider withdrawing him entirely this year so he can apply with his 'real' grades.

Ds is doing LLP with LLB, first year and has already been offered the prospect of a training contract with a very good firm, when the time comes- after he graduates.

His lecturers are constantly saying to them ‘it’s not what you know it’s who you know’.

He’s at an ex poly. (And is doing very well!!)

Oh and yes he had an unconditional
Offer. Honestly? I believe he didn’t work as hard as he could have because of this.

I would tell him not to cop out and try to be a big fish in small pond, knowing he could do better by working harder and going to a better Uni.
He will regret it in years to come.

For a field that is so competitive, the issue really is him wanting an easy path. Law won’t be an easy path and he will have to work hard to stand out. If he bombs his a/levels and then goes somewhere a bit rubbish, why should anyone want to hire him over an Oxbridge grad with stellar work experience, society posts etc. Getting a training contract isn’t easy.

I think it is different if someone has gone to a lower ranking uni due to circumstances when they were younger and then worked bloody hard, got a 1st, managed to get the right work experience etc. That’s a totally different set of circumstances to your son. Even with his top choices, he will still have to work hard to shine against the straight A* students at the top unis.

There was someone from school that did law somewhere crap with rubbish a-levels. She now works in a pub. In her case, the course and university was a total waste of money and she was badly advised by the school.

It's hard to turn down an unconditional but he really should with his grade predictions. We had the unfortunate situation of an unconditional from a RG university which was the same (if conditional) as the demanding conditional from another RG university and that made for some interesting discussions about what was right.

If your son wants the easy, stress free life, then he may not be suited to a career in law in all honesty (or certainly not the traditional solicitors private practice / bar route)

if he wants to take the stress out of achieving the conditional grades, why doesn't he take a gap year, then put in another UCAS application in the Autumn, with his grades in hand? I know a few teens who did this. They didn't want to stress about meeting conditions, so they applied with their actual grades and all their offers were unconditional.

if he wants to take the stress out of achieving the conditional grades, why doesn't he take a gap year, then put in another UCAS application in the Autumn, with his grades in hand? I know a few teens who did this. They didn't want to stress about meeting conditions, so they applied with their actual grades and all their offers were unconditional.

I have suggested this and getting work experience during that year. He seems happy with this type of plan. Because he might surprise himself and get AAB or AAA and get into a really good uni.

OP just be aware that some people on the thread have mixed up undergraduate law degrees with “law school”.

You do need (or rather your son does need) to listen to Sharpkat

7 years ago I was at one of the top grammar schools but finding it somewhat difficult to stay level with the naturally gifted students. To compensate I had to really buckle down which was exhausting and demoralising. Had I been given an unconditional offer I most certainly would've taken my foot off the pedal. Could've been disastrous as my grad scheme has fairly high A level requirements.

There are many variables with a career in law ie solicitor or barrister, Corporate, Family or Criminal etc.

If he is hoping to become a barrister or wants to aim for a training contract at a top city corporate law firm then his A levels will be taken into account alongside his degree classification. Some TC's from top tier law firms stipulate minimum AAB at A level and a min 2.1 degree. Some excellent regional or city firms will be more flexible with grades.

There are many talented and successful law professionals that went to non RG unis but increasingly it appears that competition gets tougher year on year. Many students find themselves without TC and have to self fund the LPC, in London that can be £16,000+ and regionally £12,000+

It all depends on what area and type of law he wishes to practice, if he is unsure of this I would advise that he try his absolute best to achieve the highest grades possible. If he is insistent that he wants to firm his unconditional offer he can always apply for adjustment through UCAS on results day.