Do people understand that many of us have lived through high periods of unemployment?

[marymarkle]

There are major issues for young people today with zero hour contracts and high housing costs. But I do get a bit fed up with comments that state that life is much harder for young people now that ever before.

I left school during the Thatcher year. Unemployment was very high and outside London whole communities were decimated by this, I still remember a classmate just before we left coming into school excited because they had secured a job in a factory. Jobs were very hard to get, reaching a peak of 10.8% unemployed in the early 1980's, and that was with them fidding the unemployment figures. And there was no MW, wages were often very very low. Yes house prices were cheaper, but that only benefited those already doing well.

I remember it as a very grim time in our country. While the City was booming and people earned massive bonuses, street homelessness soared, use of illegal drugs soared, as did crime. And many adults in their 50s who lost jobs during this time, never worked again. It was a grim time economically to be young.

@SnuggyBuggy I think the lie you were/are sold comes in a large part from vast numbers of young entrepreneurs making their huge successes very public by way of the internet and social media.

It gives the impression that a good idea, hard work and motivation is all it takes. But almost every time I've looked any of these people up on Wikipedia etc, they have extremely wealthy parents, have been to top independent schools and are very well connected.

Basically the sort of youngster who could afford to keep trying out different businesses ideas, then "learning from their failures" until something worked.

Most people from modest backgrounds would be £££££ in debt if they tried to do the same. Joe Wicks is a refreshing exception to this.

You think all the young people killed during the second world war were not worse off than those in the first world war which had far lower casualties?

Are you talking about death rates in war or economic well being? When you say 'worse off', what do you mean? Because your thread started off talking about economic wellbeing, and now it's been put to you that there's quite a lot of evidence the 'millenials' are earning less than their parents at a comparative age and are on track to have lower lifetime incomes, you're talking about war deaths.

True.. There were lots of such songs, all very popular, from all over the country. Where is today's youth protesting their lot? They may be doing it, but popular culture doesn't reflect it if they are!

This town is coming like a ghost town
Why must the youth fight against themselves?
Government leaving the youth on the shelf
This place (town) is coming like a ghost town
No job to be found in this country
Can't go on no more
The people getting angry

I agree with the OP that there is a sentiment in some quarters that today's young people have it particularly bad and that us oldies had it easy. It's simply not true. Some are sitting pretty, many are not. This was true of my parents' generation (WWII) and my grandparents' (WWI and the Great Depression). Generalisations are - generally - unhelpful. We all have our own stories.

I was responding to the person who said that Milleanials are the first generation since 1800 to be worse off than their parents. That is such nonsense and shows a total lack of history. I talked about the Irish potato famine/genocide where thousands of people starved to death. If that is not worse off economically I don't know what is.
Some people really need to learn basic history and understand that things have always got worse and better in cycles. There is no constant uphill progress. It has never been like that.

BorisBogtrotter

I understand that 50% hasn't been reached but demanding that more jobs are now degree level and thus saddling students with debt they wouldn't have had (nurses, paramedics etc) is a disgrace.

That's the difference for me. The numbers overall might be the same but the numbers of jobs where training was previously " on the job" but now require a degree has gone up hugely.

I love this from The Frost report

Well you have changed your argument there Mary - which is a good thing.

I was responding to the person who said that Milleanials are the first generation since 1800 to be worse off than their parents. That is such nonsense and shows a total lack of history. I talked about the Irish potato famine/genocide where thousands of people starved to death. If that is not worse off economically I don't know what is.

But that refers to economic outcomes over a lifetime, across the population, not very specific events such as the Irish potato famine or war deaths. At the time of the potato famine many other people, even poor working class people, were seeing overall improvements in their lives. Each generation improving on the generation before.

curious

it depends on what they are protesting against.
I remember a group of public school, well educated young men telling all us lower class that "We don't need no education".

RomanyRoots

That's the sketch that I was referring to. I thought it was Monty Python and I couldn't remember who the 3rd person was.

This thread is definitely reminding me of that.

weetabix So a whole country in the United Kingdom can be discarded and unimportant?

And records have only been kept of living standards since the 1950s. So nobody can make comparisons with 1800.

marymarkle

Oh don't make things up. Where did I say that?

When economists work out these figures they will look at averages across the population. On average each generation has done better than the 1 before.

Yes, many people won't have, that's how averages work.

This generation, on average, will do worse than their parents. But that obviously means that plenty will do better. But it is a trend.

That's not saying an entire country doesn't matter ffs

My grandmother was born in 1896, she lived through two world wars, poverty I can’t even imagine, she worked hard keeping her home clean with no vacuum cleaners, no automatic washer, no microwave or even a slow cooker. She could leave her front door unlocked because she had nothing worth stealing, her husband died shortly after returning from the Second World War, leaving her a young widow with four children. She did cleaning all week and laid the fires for the Jews on Fridays.

So what is your point op? Should we all suffer what our predecessors suffered? Or should we just appreciate what we have now?

I’m happy to live in the here and now. No point in anything other. Oh and yes I remember struggling when my 1985 mortgage went up and up and up!

There are plenty of historians who argue that the wars made things better.
Of course you can make comparisons with any time you like. You just use the evidence available.

@marymarkle

Well it's very easy to find records of wages etc so I guess that it is quite easy for historians to work out the details. These aren't state secrets.

Costs in the 1800's

11 - 14 Pounds - Housemaid, 1850's and 1860's, 12 - 22 Pounds in 1894
11 - 17 Pounds - Cooks, 1850's and 1860's
20 Pounds (per week) - Singer at the Canterbury Music Hall
1000 Pounds (per week) - Sarah Bernhardt at the Coliseum Variety House
18 Pounds - Lady's-maid, 1865
12 Pounds - Scullery Maid, 1865
17 Pounds - Nurse-maids
50 Pounds - Cook, 1865
40 Pounds - Coachman, 1865
60 Pounds - Valet, 1865, 70 Pounds in 1894
90 Pounds - Gardener, 1865
Duke of Bedford - 300,000 Pounds (about $90 million US)
Duke of Westminster - 250,000 Pounds (just from London properties)*

weetabix I meant a chart that plotted average wages in real terms

I think Weetabix said she came from a Polish Jewish family. It's a bit much to say that someone with that background would believe famine victims are unimportant.

Okay 1850 to 1880 wages rose in real terms starting from a very low base of being the equivalent today for a labourer of £970 a year wage. Must have been a very harsh life.

www.afamilystory.co.uk/history/wages-and-prices.aspx#Annual-wages

LaFoutis She talked about looking at the bigger picture and not one off events like the potato famine. But this affected a whole nation.

If I had to choose between living in famine-era Ireland and mid-twentieth century Poland I would choose Ireland.

@marymarkle

I don't understand your point?

Statistics look at populations as a whole and look at trends.

No one is dismissing the tragedy that happened in Ireland. I don't follow the point you are trying to make?

I haven't studied in depth the figures but I would hazard a guess that despite what happened in Ireland that generation on the whole ended up in a better position than their parents. Why is that a problem for you?

I'm not trying to make out people were living in the lap of luxury.

weetabix

Yes, I agree also reminds me of The 4? Yorkshire men

A piece of useless info for you all, but during the potato famine my ancestor gf x4 I think, fed a whole village on Hedgehog stew.
Apparently you pot roast them and the prickles and outside skin just sort of peel off.

So if we get hungry post brexit, it may come back into our family menu's