Do people understand that many of us have lived through high periods of unemployment?

[marymarkle]

There are major issues for young people today with zero hour contracts and high housing costs. But I do get a bit fed up with comments that state that life is much harder for young people now that ever before.

I left school during the Thatcher year. Unemployment was very high and outside London whole communities were decimated by this, I still remember a classmate just before we left coming into school excited because they had secured a job in a factory. Jobs were very hard to get, reaching a peak of 10.8% unemployed in the early 1980's, and that was with them fidding the unemployment figures. And there was no MW, wages were often very very low. Yes house prices were cheaper, but that only benefited those already doing well.

I remember it as a very grim time in our country. While the City was booming and people earned massive bonuses, street homelessness soared, use of illegal drugs soared, as did crime. And many adults in their 50s who lost jobs during this time, never worked again. It was a grim time economically to be young.

Largely, immigrants tend to be men. It is common for men to travel to another country, work two or three jobs, save some money, then bring family over. And even more are single. Oh and largely they come from countries where things are really dire.

I agree that the places I rented in London that were shitholes were the norm. I viewed rooms in shared houses owned and lived in by lawyers and other professionals who had bought shitholes and had no money to keep their property okay. I envied anyone at the time in social housing as invariably the standard of accommodation was better.

Oliversmumsarmy that is true but it’s also much more expensive to rent nowadays, and you still get those terrible slummy flats in the mix depending on where you are. And although slum landlords are illegal a lot of them still rent out sheds or storage units with basic amenities chucked in to people on low incomes who can’t afford more. Thankfully fees are going out the door, but they have been prohibitively expensive in the past (I once had to pay an estate agent £70 to change the name on the tenancy agreement from the old tenant to myself).

I am glad fees are going. I remember way back having to pay an insanely large amount. It was pre internet, so you couldn't even search there. It was either postcards on shop windows or fees to letting agents. Disgraceful.

I think the difference now is that it's not enough to just get a job. There are lots of industries that are a waste of time because no matter how hard you work you'll never earn enough to make a living with current property prices.

OP

I didn't get a 100% mortgage. My point was that on a nurse's wages, after 2 years, I had saved a deposit and bought a house. At the end of this week I make my final mortgage payment. So for the rest of my working life and in retirement I am mortgage/rent free.

My son is a teacher. He is paying about 2/3 of his take home pay renting a studio flat. It is horrible - damp, mouldy and has a mouse problem. We are there constantly trying to make it a bit better because the landlord doesn't give a toss. We have to help him out financially because he can't afford to live on his wage. At this rate he won't be able to buy a house because he can't save for a deposit. Unless he gets an inheritance he will be stuck renting. So possibly for the rest of his working life and into retirement he will need to find £900 a month to rent a mouldy damp studio flat? If he wants to have a family lord knows where the money will come from to rent a house.

No way was life harder in the 80s for young people.

As someone who is mid 30s, working class, with working class parents I would say today's generation definitely have it harder. My parents got married and bought a house at 24. He worked in the steel industry and she was a sahm. He also got a lump sum pension at 50 and a decent monthly payment.

I (with help from my parents) bought a house at 25 and I appreciate I am in the fortunate minority. But I live extremely frugally.

I fear for teenagers today and even more so for my own children in the future. What chance do they have to own a home, without parental help? University will leave them with a ridiculous amount of debt. Alongside the social pressures nowadays, lack of freedom to play etc I definitely wouldn't want to be a child now.

Weetabix You and your son are middle class - lower middle class, but still. I have consistently said that life has got harder for middle class people and their young do have it harder. But that is not the same for working class people.

For young people today it will largely come down to who has parents that can help financially and who doesn't.

So why is there not more of a fightback, and instead it is all about blaming individuals?

"Don’t tell me what the internet says. I am saying what I experienced"

What you experienced is a very narrow perspective shaped by your preconcieved prejudices.

It isn't an accurate picture of the time.

The data provided is accurate and shows that it was far easier to get on the housing ladder, rents were cheaper and took up a smaller proportion of income. University was free and in 1980 14% of the 18-21 year olds went, today its 28%.

The statitstics on those in university however does not include those in Polytechnics in 1980, it only counts for those in 38 Universities. Of course it also doesn't cover those provided with on the job training then who would now be required degrees as entry requirements either.

lower middle class, but still

That's put you in your place Weetabix!

marymarkle

We aren't middle class. What are you basing that on?

I work in a supermarket now. My husband has a manual job. My parents are working class. My son is now in what would be considered a M/C job but I doubt you can call him m/c after 6 months.

However - their house also cost £36k, whereas our house (of comparable size) cost us £173k.

But they'll have been paying interest rates well into double figures for an awful long time, not the 1-2% people are paying these days. I remortgaged in the late 80s/early 90s and managed to get a deal for 13.5%, which was considered low at the time.

And they were probably earning a hell of a lot less, too.

That's put you in your place Weetabix!

We are working class here, through and through and very proud of that fact.

Proper East End girl, of Polish Jewish stock.

So why is there not more of a fightback, and instead it is all about blaming individuals?

What individuals?

weetabix You talked about being a nurse and your son being a teacher.

Boris Yes 14% of people went to university in 1980, largely the middle classes.

remortgaged in the late 80s/early 90s and managed to get a deal for 13.5%, which was considered low at the time.
I bought my house in 1993. Interest rate was 7.5%

1-2 % of a higher principle will take the same proportion as a double figures interest rate on a lower principle. This is a poor comparison.

People spent a lower proportion of their wages on housing, even those with mortgages.

FaFoutis There is so much blaming of the poor these days.

The eighties were pretty grim for some towns such as Coventry which lost their car industry. I was pretty lucky in that in our largest city there was a choice of industries to choose from. You may not have got the job you really wanted but it was better than not having a job at all. In some families there wasn't a single person in work. Somehow I was never made redundant but often hated the work.

Expectations are higher now - you're expected to get a degree then a fab career which is well paid rather than 'just a job' - we can't all be brain surgeons. The jobs I did years ago don't exist anymore.

Boris And the poor earned less than now. There was no minimum wage and much less benefits. And food and clothes were much more expensive.

"Boris Yes 14% of people went to university in 1980, largely the middle classes."

Read. The. Post.

14% went to university, this doesn't include those at Polytechs.

A broadly similar number of people were in HE between the ages of 19-21 as are now, but it was free then.

More people got on the job training to degree level professional qualifications then too.

In broad terms, the % of people that are university educated or to degree equivalent standard has not changed dramatically at all.

Much easier back in the 80’s to get on the housing ladder. I worked for a bank back then & postmen were buying houses in nice areas in the outskirts of London.

Those houses are now worth around 600k, can’t see many postmen being able to afford that today.

weetabix You talked about being a nurse and your son being a teacher.
Yes. I was a nurse (I would struggle calling nursing in the 80s and 90s a middle class job) and my son has just qualified as a teacher. Teaching is a m/c occupation.

But class is not just based on occupation is it? And my current job is working in a supermarket. So have I gone from working class to middle class to working class then? Despite my values, politics, lifestyle staying the same?