Do people understand that many of us have lived through high periods of unemployment?

[marymarkle]

There are major issues for young people today with zero hour contracts and high housing costs. But I do get a bit fed up with comments that state that life is much harder for young people now that ever before.

I left school during the Thatcher year. Unemployment was very high and outside London whole communities were decimated by this, I still remember a classmate just before we left coming into school excited because they had secured a job in a factory. Jobs were very hard to get, reaching a peak of 10.8% unemployed in the early 1980's, and that was with them fidding the unemployment figures. And there was no MW, wages were often very very low. Yes house prices were cheaper, but that only benefited those already doing well.

I remember it as a very grim time in our country. While the City was booming and people earned massive bonuses, street homelessness soared, use of illegal drugs soared, as did crime. And many adults in their 50s who lost jobs during this time, never worked again. It was a grim time economically to be young.

"The numbers of young people in full time education has increased dramatically."

Yes but as a % of the population of that demographic they haven't.

"I did a diploma paid for by work last year.
HTH"

You aren't a person aged 18-21. They are like hens teeth to come by now, where as they were much more common in the 80s.

In the 80s far fewer occupations had degrees as a barrier to entry.

Off the top of my head? Nursing - trained on the job, accountancy - trained on the job, journalism- trained on the job and there are many more.

How far do they have to travel fedupski?

But that was an inevitable consequence. If many more young people get degrees, then they will become required for jobs that they were not previously required for.

And you are wrong. Read the link I posted. There has been a dramatic rise in young people attending full time education post 18.

Yes more people did mainly on the job training, so didn't do full time degrees.

Is that acceptable?

And there are modern apprenticeships.

@weetabix

Yes, thinking about it, it was probably late '89 or early '90 that I remortgaged. Rates had come down a lot by the time I bought this house in 1993.

I remember my boss's secretary crying on Black Wednesday in 1992 though, when base rates (briefly) hit 15%, and she'd not long moved and taken out a massive mortgage. I thought I'd have pull the plug on my house purchase, too, but rates soon went back down again.

Anthea I was not commenting on what was best. Boris has been trying to argue that the same amount of young people do degrees as previously, he is wrong. Many more people do degrees these days.

I should have said say a higher percentage did mainly on the job training and didn't study full time for degrees.

Anyhow HE has been a con for some people.

My parents night their house for £18000 in 1980 we paid £325000 for ours which needed s huge amount of work doing to it, in the same area, and despite both having professional jobs had turned take second jobs to be able save to buy. That isn't inflation and the hiding market her been hugely impacted by all of those people in the rugged who benefited from Thatcher's right to buy nightmare.

We've had to pay for our degrees and get into a large amount of debt to be educated, it was free in the eighties and you got a grant. My parents were working class in the eighties but still say things at tighter all round for all generstions now. They also have good end salary pensions and a decent state pension. My mum was able to retire at sixty. We won't have that. Longer working hours or more unsocial hours are expected in most jobs and childcare to cover it is proportionately more expensive (my mother was a child care provider back then). In the eighties everything voided on Sundays and often Wednesday afternoons to allow for family life, that balance has gone. Your giver doing didn't cost the proportion of salary that it does now a lot of this is evidenced by the fact more families were able to work on one salary whereas now both parents need to with in a lot of cases just to support themselves.
Yes mining and industry towns were hit hard and older people unable to retrain in a service industry were stuffed, the difficulties now are more widespread and longer lasting

Sorry i only meant acceptable in terms of accuracy and agreeing on language!

I was surprised at Boris's assertion and am trying to work out the discrepancies with what I've heard previously about numbers in HE.

Boris has been trying to argue that the same amount of young people do degrees as previously, he is wrong. Many more people do degrees these days.

I might be wrong but I don't think they are.

I think Boris is saying when you take into consideration the people who were previously at uni, doing courses at a poly, or on the job training like nursing and add them altogether and then compare them with the number of people at uni today it's the same.

You can't be a nurse or paramedic today without getting a degree for example so you either have to add in the numbers who previously did traditional training or take them out of the numbers at uni today.

It would depend on where you lived in the borough, where I lived my old college was about 4 miles each way. It cost me £5 a week to get to college on the bus, walking took about 1 and a half hours, but I lived as close to the next borough as possible, people in the middle are looking at twice that to get there. There used to be a local college for Alevel students with a free bus pass to get there and that was closed down, it’s ridiculous.

I'm not going to say that young people have it easier/harder these days.
But the thing I have noticed is that they seem to have higher expectations on what work they want to do.
I live in an area which has a fair few factories and there always seems to be jobs available.....the young people I know don't want to do accept jobs like these as its beneath them/menial work.
Whereas when I was their age (mid 90's) a job was a job

Except Boris has added everyone at polys and that includes people who now do some of those courses at HE.

Yes wish I could retire at 60.

When did paramedics start needing degrees? I've missed that one.

I think an important difference is in the demographics. There are simply more older people now than there used to be, relative to younger generations. That drowns out the voices of younger people, influence in politics etc.

But mary- you're talking in circles.

Today's yoof have to go to uni and accrue a huge debt in order to access quite low level, insecure employment.

You are saying that today's yoof are so lucky to be able to go to uni. Well, neither of my parents went but as stated by myself upthread, on a single wage my dad bought a house in 1965 (he was 32 but they'd spent 8 years abroad prior to that); worked 9-5 Mo-Fri, we holiday'ed (camping!); we ran a car, didn't pay for my GS education or HCP qualification (now a £40,000k degree); retired at 57 with a £70,000 payout (earning 16% interest- the flip side of those crazy mortgages) and a £35,000 pension. Middle manager. And yes, wash day was all day on one day.... but that was all mum had to do that day! There was also the half day of getting her hair 'done' every week, the multiple 'coffee mornings' she was at leisure to attend (dragging me along!).

It's not a race to the bottom, but I see my 19 year old's future as being more worrying than mine was- and I graduated, as a HCP, into Maggie's Millions (of unemployed) but I could claim the dole during college holidays and the day after graduation. And I could have chosen to have stayed in my first job (6 weeks on the dole) from then to today. My DS is unlikely to have that sort of job security, is he?

My DS is very lucky in one respect- that he has benefitted from the sale of that house dad bought in 1969 for £4500- then sold 3 years ago for £450,000 (Will).

Many his age will not get that leg up.

AntheaGreenfern

I don't know when exactly but they do.

No I am not saying that. The middle class young are worse off.
But what I was saying was that free degrees benefited very few working class young people because so few went. A lot left school at 16. The more bright stayed on until 18, a very small number went to university or poly and got a degree.

And I am saying that things improved in the 90s and early 200's, and are going backwards now. But no for ordinary people my age life was not a land of milk and honey.

AntheaGreenfern

Just had a quick look. There are a couple of routes in via paramedic science degree, as a student paramedic but still studying at uni (looks like this is a 2 year HE course but unclear) or via a degree apprenticeship.

Bit unclear because LAS says on their website that to work for them you need a degree in paramedic science.

" Read the link I posted."

I did, it uses nominal figures not percentages, so I'm not wrong, and it doesn't prove it. Seriously if you had gone to uni maybe you'd be able to read data.

You really aren't getting this.

When you retort to the point that older generations got free educations with "but far fewer went to uni" you are incorrect, because about the same percent studied at HE in the past or obtained HE level qualifications through work.

Almost all of the in work routes are now gone, not because of the change in numbers going to university, but cuts by firms to training budgets. Young people are expected to under take the initial training themselves at their own expense.

Seriously, the generation that were young in the 80s did have things harder than their parents ( who were the first real teen generation) but they paid less of their income in rent, were more likely to own houses before they were 30, they had free education or on the job training and lower barriers to entry into occupations.

It is harder now for young people.

They have to pay larger share of their income in rent.
They have lower disposable incomes if they are graduates because they pay back student loans.
Properties are more expensive.
Barriers to entry to professional jobs are higher, and 25 % of roles now require a degree in order to start.
Unemployment benefits are lower, harder to get, and you can't sign on as a student in holidays.

Missing the main point but all sorts if HNDs are done in many industries every year, paid for by employers. Some are mandatory CPD. I know as DH takes them and I used to teach them!

Some weird opinions here... a bit like some posters are determined to prove that OP has been truly wicked and utterly wrong.

" All sorts if HNDs are done in many industries every year, paid for by employers"

But not as many as previously were undertaken.

This is the point. Far many more firms require people to have the qualification before entry.

So you don't get paid for two years, and in fact pay for your own training! Grrreat!!

There are still company paid traineeships out there, I know young people doing them.