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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be pissed off DD wasn’t made a seconder

54 replies

Smellbellina · 29/01/2019 23:16

I am upset about it, can’t lie.

4 positions for seconder at Brownies came up (various reasons) they’re supposed to go by age/length of service, DD was top for both. She didn’t get any of them! All were given to younger girls who haven’t been there as long. I know it seems like no big deal, but it’s just another thing she’s been overlooked for and it’s irritated me so much.

I volunteer! I give up my free time, and i’m not asking for special treatment just equal treatment.

On top of that the person who would have been in charge for working out the eldest 4 girls for the role would have definitely known my DD was the oldest if not one of the eldest, and it’s just like them to do it deliberately whilst smiling to my face.

AIBU?

OP posts:

ContraryToPopularBelief · 29/01/2019 23:25

I'd speak to whoever is in charge. If indeed it is oldest / most experienced then you're quite right to point it out.

Butterymuffin · 29/01/2019 23:29

I would point that out too. In front of other people. Say she must have forgotten that DDis the oldest and was next in line to be seconder, but it will need to be put right.

ShadyLady53 · 29/01/2019 23:31

I can understand that you are upset but I thought that Sixers and Seconders were chosen based on demonstration of leadership skills rather than age and length of service...at least that’s what the handbook says. That’s not to say of course that your dd doesn’t deserve to be a seconder, it’s really difficult to say why she wasn’t chosen without knowing the ins and outs.

Are there any sixer spots likely to become open in the immediate future and is it possible she’s being “saved” for that? Or do you think it’s some sort of politics within the group?

I hope that your DD isn’t feeling too down about being overlooked this time. I know it must be tough.

BowBeau · 29/01/2019 23:32

Point out that there’s been a mistake and you’d like it rectified. The youngest girl will get bumped but she has more years left as a Brownie so will get another chance to be Seconder.

BaconPringles · 29/01/2019 23:33

Seconders are chosen by age too at our unit but some units change it up.

I’d question it to be fair
But would they really be doing it deliberately while smiling to your face?

ShadyLady53 · 29/01/2019 23:33

www.girlguiding.org.uk/globalassets/docs-and-resources/programme-and-activities/guidance-notes-brownies.pdf

Copy of the handbook with info about sixes and seconders on page 6.

BringOnTheScience · 29/01/2019 23:35

Who says it's "supposed to be by age/length of service"? I'm a Brown Owl. Our Sixers and Seconds [it is Second, not Seconder] are a chosen on suitability for the role.

It could be a genuine mistake. It could be a deliberate spite. It could be that your DD is not yet showing that she's responsible enough. We're not there, so we can't tell.

BowBeau · 29/01/2019 23:37

I thought that Sixers and Seconders were chosen based on demonstration of leadership skills

When I was a Brownie, each Six lined up with new people at the back and Sixer/Seconder at the front. When someone in front of you left, you moved up a spot. OPs DD won’t become Sixer without first being Seconder.

ShadyLady53 · 29/01/2019 23:44

@BowBeau that’s not what the handbook says. Maybe this is how OP and your group’s leaders have chosen to run the groups but the handbook clearly says that it’s not necessarily based on age but on the leadership skills shown by the Brownies.

Onlyjoinedforthisthread · 29/01/2019 23:45

You are wrong about age, look at the guide provided.
If she has the same traits as her mother im not surprised she wasn't picked.
All the leaders are volunteer so what difference does it make that you volunteer, you say you don't want preferential treatment because of it, if that was true you wouldn't have mentioned the fact, you'll like a toddler having a tantrum because you didn't get your own way.

UbercornsGoggles · 30/01/2019 00:01

This happened to me as a child and it still rankles! A new leader of our group promoted my friend (2 days younger than me) just because she knew my friend from church. I was older, I'd been in the group for longer. I was furious.

This was over 35 years ago, maybe I should let it go... I now work in a senior leadership role and the other girl is still my best friend so no harm done.

But I would have loved for the injustice to be rectified - OP I think you need to say something as long as your daughter is ok with you doing so.

CloserIAm2Fine · 30/01/2019 00:07

Many units do have the oldest brownies autonatically as sixers and second but not all (and as PP says this is not the ideal way of running a unit).

I would frame it as DD would love to be a second, what does she need to do to show she’s up to the challenge? If they say it’s age, point out that she’s older than some of the new seconds.

FortunesFave · 30/01/2019 00:14

Oh I'd complain. My DD got to be Sixer just because she had been there the longest.

It's important!

sweeneytoddsrazor · 30/01/2019 00:37

It should be done by the girl that shows she is most capable. Being a Sixer or Second is not about age or length of time in the unit. The girls that most demonstrate the Brownie spirit should be the ones chosen.

Joboy · 30/01/2019 00:42

I was once voter second by other members i was so proud i had been chosen . I was always last chosen for sport.
But i think the age thing is fair . You never know you have leadership quality till you try it . So everyone gets a chance .

OlennasWimple · 30/01/2019 00:46

Don't complain, don't do this in front of everyone else.

Just speak to them and say that you are confused, can they explain the process for choosing a second, as you and DD both thought that she would become one this time

Angrybird345 · 30/01/2019 06:24

Just ask!!

Ladyoftheloch · 30/01/2019 06:28

If she has the same traits as her mother im not surprised she wasn't picked.

Needlessly bitchy comment. Honestly, who do you think you are?

I would raise it OP. Regardless of what the handbook says, if your group does it by age / service then it’s not fair your DD has been overlooked. And if it’s an issue with her leadership skills, it’s fair that they tell you this so that you can help your DD address it.

underneaththeash · 30/01/2019 06:33

If wonder if there's going to be a sizer position coming up and your daughter will just go straight into that?

How often do you help out. Is it not discussed at unit meetings?

PhilomenaButterfly · 30/01/2019 06:36

I was a seconder at 7.

AnguaResurgam · 30/01/2019 06:38

I think she probably mentioned that she volunteers simply to sto,the slew of posts that wouid follow if she hadn't along the lines of 'the volunteers who run the packs don't need this kind of thing, if you can do better volunteer!'

And if this pack was changing its practice, from age/length of membership to other criteria, it wouid have been kind to tip off the OP. Because there's no way that she and her DD wouldn't have noted ad feel hurt/passed over.

Transitions need to be managed, not just imposed unexplained. The leader can make whatever changes she likes, but a good leader doesn't do it like this.

Ethel36 · 30/01/2019 06:53

I would just have a chat with the leaders and ask if your daughter will get a chance to fufil that role? Just be friendly and upfront with them.

GrasswillbeGreener · 30/01/2019 07:07

I agree that some children won't show "leadership skills" unless put in a position to do so, especially at these younger ages. I'm still suspicious that my own daughter was passed over for a leadership role (different thing, slightly older age) because no-one realised she was interested in doing it. Of the available pool the two chosen were perhaps the least appropriate while some of the things two others then did demonstrated their suitability ...

Becles · 30/01/2019 07:07

Another Brown Owl here who definitely doesn't allocate Sixers / Seconds by age or length of time served. Whenever a child announces she's delay going to be the Sixer/Second because it's her turn, they get told no and we have a pow wow to think about what makes a good Sixer/Second - the girls always disagree when I say it's age or been there longer.

I take a range of things into account including maturity, attitude and attendance. Sometimes it gives a shy child a massive confidence boost and others it's a way of encouraging a boisterous child to reflect and set an example.

Had a parent flounce her daughter (and 3 friends) out for not being a Second. Girl we chose was due to go to Guides at the end of term, was 5 months older, had been there for 2 terms more, was a lot more considerate and less back chatty.

Do not ask the leaders any subtle / confused questions or try to change their minds. It's too late and unless you have a plan to deal with the girl already awarded a Second badge, you will only get their back up because there are 2 other parents also sending shirty emails.

MyOtherProfile · 30/01/2019 07:12

Just send a polite questioning email asap.

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