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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask previous house owners to pay to sort this out?

66 replies

itsabongthing · 29/01/2019 12:57

A good friend moved into a new home about 6 months ago, it has a wood burning stove.
There was a HETAS (stove governing body/regulator) certificate provided so they assumed all was well.

Recently whilst using the stove the sort of plate but round the pipe fell down. They’d already booked a chimney sweep anyway for the following week so left it.
The chimney sweep came and said the stove installation didn’t look right at all - recommended a stove specialist to come round.

The stove specialist came round - said it was non complaint and unsafe, lots of issues with it. Told them not to use it until it was sorted. Quotes for the work needed but also said to follow up with HETAS.

HETAS taken it very seriously, verified via photos that’s it’s not safe etc.
They have contacted the installer, who then contacted my friend directly.
He’s very apologetic, very upset to have been contacted by HETAS and said that when he left the installation it was compliant. The previous owner of the house is in the building trade and is a friend/acquaintance of the installer, they have worked together before. The installer was very cross with his ‘friend’ because he said he changed the stove after the installation and in doing so, removed an adaptor to the flue leaving it unconnected with a very short stove pipe (one of the issues).
He offered to come and rectify and said he would give the bill to the previous owner - all good.
Then he calls back saying the previous owner says he doesn’t want to pay because the house was sold ‘as seen’. Installer has offered labour for free but really wants cost of materials covered.

Would be really interested on others thoughts on this. Should my friend just pay for the materials to make it compliant so they can use again? Should they pursue the previous owner? Do you think morally/legally he should be liable?

OP posts:

RCohle · 29/01/2019 14:45

Also to be honest, your friends have only got the installer's word for all this. He's the only one who's claimed the stove must have been changed after he installed it - the previous owners haven't admitted that directly to your friends, right?

Any chance he's just covering his arse with HETAS because he did a dodgy job installing it?

patstar · 29/01/2019 14:47

Hetas will be able to tell you if there have been any other complaints about the installer. If this is a one off, then I would presume that it was compliant when the installer issued the Hetas certificate.
Hetas insurance should cover this - all installers have to pay to be part of Hetas.
They will ask you to get some quotes to rectify the installation and they should pay

OftenHangry · 29/01/2019 14:47

The previous owner lied tho. Knowingly. You don't provide a certificate for something that is not certified so there could be a way to get the money back from him. Your friend should certainly consult a solicitor. Though I don't think it will be worth it if it's only £300. Maybe a small claim court? They will most likely have to put it down to experience for a future.

Heyha · 29/01/2019 14:48

I'm not sure if this would be over the line but can you review his work on his own home as a link to his trade? Leave a review on Google along the lines of "terrible job installing log burner..." Hopefully someone cleverer than me will be able to advise if that would get you into trouble though.

Tinkobell · 29/01/2019 14:53

I personally think it's a pretty good deal that the HETAS engineer is offering his labour FOC to fix a tampered stove and your friend only has to swallow £300 for the materials within the context of an overall house purchase. To pursue the matter legally will cost more and probably get your friend now where. I'd swallow it. Lucky that plate did come crashing down and alert the family to the modification before they died of carbon monoxide poisoning. ......I'd probably write a letter to that effect to the previous owner and lean on them that way. The school issue is irrelevant.

Neversurrender65 · 29/01/2019 14:53

A HETAS certificate applies only to the type/make of stove installed and signed off by the installer. A new stove requires a new certificate. The seller of the house has done something wrong in replacing the stove and not getting a new certificate. The installer is probably annoyed because his name will be on that fraudulent certificate. Your surveyor should have perhaps checked more deeply given that stoves have been a “hot topic”😂 lately. Tell your friend to get the evidence, clearly present the whole issue to those concerned, and either accept a reasonable solution that is legal and safe, bearing in mind second stove needs a certificate if you are in a smoke control zone, or get legal help.

delboysskinsandblister · 29/01/2019 14:54

Friendship is irrevelant when it comes to selling a property with a non-compliant illegal Carbon Monoxide producing flue.

Yes you have completed but you could still pursue this as they are liable for selling you something that can kill you. Your home insurance solicitor will advise. I would seek advise and put in writing that you have sought advise and request them to pay. Your #friend' has shafted you. This should have all been serviced and certificated before sale. You also should have instructed a surveyor.

What other treats has she left you in her house of horrors.....?

Tinkobell · 29/01/2019 14:54

V good idea to ring HETAS and check no previous complaints on the installer ....just to be safe.

Tinkobell · 29/01/2019 14:58

If the previous owner is a builder by trade, they must be a complete cowboy who doesn't give a shit about reputation or safety. I've had builders - in fact I built a house - they stayed well away from specialised jobs like that requiring certification - Polish company, fantastic!

NicoAndTheNiners · 29/01/2019 15:06

I would like to think your friend has a case. Surely it's like selling a car with an mot certificate for a different car?

If there had been a tragedy here regarding carbon monoxide I think the previous owner would have been on thin ice. Which suggests possible liability.

BlueStockingUK · 29/01/2019 15:09

It ISN'T caveat emptor, if she was provided with a 'bogus' certificate! Decision to buy house comes from seller being compliant with all certificates necessary. The decision to buy was based on certificates provided. A certificate show's compliance. If it's false, it's fraud.

Please do pursue and if no joy with previous owners, use small claim's court.

bellabasset · 29/01/2019 17:03

The certificate doesn't cover the stove so your friend should bring it to the attention of the insurance company and get them to sort.

Or your friend could take a punt and phone the installer and tell him she appreciated his help and offer to correct the fault. Suggest he goes back to the seller and ask him to reconsider paying for the parts otherwise she will make a complaint about being given a false cert as it is fraudulent misrepresentation.Then she will leave it to be rectified with the seller paying for labour and parts. That way the original *installer wouldn't be involved with the issue.

*He must be furious that this has happened as it could be detrimental to his business.

ShalomJackie · 29/01/2019 17:26

It is caveat emptor. The certificate will state the date. The buyer should ask whether any work done or problema since issue of the certificate. The buyer should rely on any surveys or specific checks done.

bbcessex · 29/01/2019 17:32

I bet the installer is a friend of the previous owner, the previous owner installed it himself and the installer gave him the cert.

Now the installer is terrified that that will be found out.

Otherwise he would say - “ nothing to do with me, totally compliant when I left it, full paid job to rectify or take it up with owners it’s entirety”.

WonderWoman2019 · 29/01/2019 17:34

If the certificate was submitted to you during the purchase process as being evidence that the appliance as compliant (when that appliance had been knowingly altered after the certification date) then of course it was fraud.

The questions are:

was the certificate presented as valid compliance evidence for the property at date of purchase? and
is it worth your while pursuing this

Depends on the numbers but I'd say you're all very lucky nothing bad happened.

Queenie8 · 29/01/2019 19:25

Personally I'd pay the £300 to rectify it. It could cost more fighting it.

We moved into our house with a wood burner, was told it had been swept with in the last few months etc etc, roll forward six months when we had it swept, it was condemned because the chimney had been capped. So not only did the previous owner know that it hadn't been swept, they put us and our children at high risk of co2 poisoning. Ours too cost approx £300 to rectify with a new top plate, which had burnt through, new back and side bricks inside the stove and the chimney stack being changed.

Furious doesn't cover how angry I was.

Oh and we see the previous owners out and about often.....

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