SS forcing treatment on a child? (More WWYD)

[PinkCatPhone]

Context: I have SS involvement, own stupid fault due to having a breakdown when my marriage broke down (he was violent) and not coping. DD is on a CIN. DD is 3.

DD has SN but is generally stable, happy and contented. I do all her appointments, and she sees her dad EOW for court ordered contact.
DD has a condition that doesn’t affect any of her others, but is very visible. It doesn’t cause any problems day-to-day unlike her other conditions. She’s under a specialist for the condition and it is monitored by the specialist and also her paediatrician she sees for a more general condition. There is treatment for the condition but atm it’s not necessary as leaving it alone is working and while it’s visible the condition itself is stable when treatment could make it unstable and have a knock on effect to her other conditions. I do not want invasive treatment on DD when it’s unnecessary; the specialist understands my position and supports this as she feels that putting a child through unnecessary treatment is pointless. Her dad is happy to follow my lead, if I feel the treatment is best for DD he’ll support it, but equally is happy for it to be left if it’s stable.

Social Worker keeps mentioning the condition and insisting that she needs treatment. She has called the specialist and spoken to her about it, trying to get her to persuade me to take treatment. She also called the paediatrician who doesn’t support putting her through the treatment when the condition is stable and could affect the other conditions.

Social Worker is now talking about moving her onto a Child Protection plan as I keep ignoring her advice to get this treatment. She says if that happens another Social Worker will be involved and between them they can make decisions about DD, and if they feel she has to have the treatment they will overrule me and insist she has it. Treatment is an operation. DD has had operations in the past and ended up having an overnight stay in hospital due to the anaesthetic destabilising one of her other problems so her specialist for the condition it affected plus the specialist for the condition she had operated on needed to be nearby to monitor her. She was ill for a good 5 weeks after and missed so much Nursery as she goes 3 days a week and couldn’t return until the 3rd week after the operation (when they said she’d be ok after 48 hours) and even then was on a week of half days. She was on antibiotics for a long while after and is still having problems due to the operation but it was necessary so I put her through it.

Does anyone know if SS can force this treatment on us? I don’t work but her dad does, and he won’t be happy if his contact is messed up due to this (he gets annoyed with me if she misses contact due to illness so if it’s forced upon us I can see things getting difficult). I’m not saying she never has the treatment but while the condition is stable, I’d like to “watch and wait”.

Speak to the Orthoptist who is looking after your DDs eyes.
I do not know your DDs case but if it is as you say and surgery is purely cosmetic and not functional then I would suggest:
Ask them to write a letter to you with the diagnosis and what you have discussed.
Ask them to specifically put that the operation is not necessary but optional and there is no cut off age for surgery so it can even be done in adulthood.
Ask them to put in the letter that the decision is entirely up to you.

I am an Orthoptist and the decision is always up to the parent/guardian - even in cases where the squint is cosmetically awful.

Isn't it better to have eye conditions corrected early?

Waveysnail - not always, no. Hence why in this case the doctors and specialists involved have suggested waiting, as noted in the OP.

The sooner this type of surgery is done the better. The squint will not correct itself. Leave it too late and the operation won't work.

Ask for a new social worker.

If your correctly understanding the medical advice you’ve been given (which it sounds like you are) then you have absolutely nothing to worry about, but this social worker seems unable to appreciate grey areas which come with multiple conditions and is causing you a lot of ballache.

If a medic felt you weren’t acting in her best interests in terms of treatment options they’d be applying for a court order to be giving her what she needs. If they’re not willing to take that step then no way would a SW be able to persuade a court to grant it:

@DaisyDreaming they actually have no power, unless they get a court order. In Scotland it's s multi-agency decision to raise children to child protection so it doesn't sound like your social worker would have grounds to raise it to child protection if DDs doctors don't agree it's necessary, unless there are other concerns.

It should be a multiagency approach here, the SW should be taking on board the advice from paediatrician, Was this discussed in clinic with paeds? If so is it documented in the clinic letter? If not the paediatrician should write the options and best course of action, if you are actively going against medical advice you’ll be on sticky grounds but it does sound from your OP that this isn’t the case and your decision is supported by a medical specialist.
Get health on side HV, paeds, specialist nurse, good luck

I would try to speak to your Social Worker's manager, take the recommendation from the doctor with you and say that the SW pressing you to go against medical advice is causing unnecessary stress.

Shocking situation OP. If I were you I would try to change sw if that is possible.

This operation is done for cosmetic reasons only and I would labour this point with your sw as well as getting it in writing from your specialists.

It doesn't get "too late" for the surgery, whoever suggested that, but is an operation that is likely to be repeated (and repeated) over the course of a lifetime. Where I am, kids tend to have this surgery at 6, before starting school. They will then often be old enough themselves to decide if they want to have the surgery again at a later date.

Why would you not want to correct the squint? Usually the earlier the better it is.

So what if it's just cosmetic, shes got to live with it when older. Realistically what else can it impact on bar her eyes? There's got to be a reason SS are focusing on the issue.

It's not true with a squint that the earlier is best- yes in terms of patching, glasses etc but definitely not surgery . My dd has a very obvious squint but nobody has suggested surgery as it largely corrects with glasses. I've asked the opthamologist but they have said it's not necessary
Eye surgery can cause complications- my husband has been left with permanent damage following eye surgery so I would be very hesitant.

Realistically what else can it impact on bar her eyes?

Her last operation she struggled to control her own temperature when she came round for the anesthetic and as she has other conditions this destabalised one of them. I don't want to put her through that again unless absolutely necessarily

Why would you not want to correct the squint? Usually the earlier the better it is.

Not according to DD’s specialist. If done too young it can be unsuccessful and need repeat surgery. They advised against it as it is purely cosmetic and there are risks associated with it. They also said it can correct as they get older. Her’s is far better than it used to be.

I asked DD9 if she wanted it done. She’s no stranger to surgery and all it entails but she said no, it doesn’t bother her. I said she could have it done if she changed her mind.

I don’t believe SS can force a treatement that a consultant and a paediatrician has said they wouldn’t do. I’d be talking to your SW’s boss.

I had a squint and surgery as a child 47 yrs ago - my dd has/had one BUT after some patching to strengthen - the correct glasses it is at 14% turn which to be honest unless you know its there is unnoticeable and as you say her eyes function it is just for cosmetics.

I think you need to get some facts and figures from the specialist, get their recommendations documented/or your agreed course of action and advise that the decision will be reviewed in x month or years when other conditions are more stable. It is not in the childs best interests to have excessive surgery, miss contact when she is just getting things set up with her father and things are stabilising between you, that fundamentally medically it is not necessary.

You would be amazed how many people have lazy eyes/squints and you don't really notice in a day to day situation. I don't agree we should be putting people through surgery unless it significantly impacts the actual function of the eye

The sooner this type of surgery is done the better. The squint will not correct itself. Leave it too late and the operation won't work.

So you know this child you have never met better than her own paediatrician? Don't be so fucking arrogant.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NHS stopped providing this operation in the future. Haven't they stopped doing other cosmetic surgery eg for varicose veins?

No, social workers cannot make decisions for your child. I can't imagine why they said they could - I would make a complaint about that.
Secondly a child protection conference would not be convened unless a manager and police officer agreed that it was necessary. That sounds very unlikely based on what you said alone (caveat, I don't know what else might be going on) The specialist would be invited to contribute to a CP conference and if they were saying that this operation is not necessary, then a CP plan would be unlikely.

If the medical professionals think it's unnecessary to surgery then I don't understad why the SW should be threatenng you about it. All GAs carry risk, so I would want to know why dd should fac this risk when she doesn't need to.

If paed, gp, specialist are all able to put their views on this in writing then I imagine SW will look pretty silly.

Like RB68, I had a squint corrected at 3 years old and it has not been completely successful. When older DD's eye started to turn inwards, we were referred to the local eye unit. They explained that it was due to her being very long-sighted. She needed glasses. They didn't want to consider surgery until we had given patching a really good go. DD was 2.5 at the time and we probably patched for around 18 months. We managed to do it when she was at home rather than nursery so nobody else was aware of it. By the age of 7, her eyes were very similar (but still very long-sighted) and now at 19, the opticians cannot tell which was her "bad" eye. She is still very long-sighted and still wears glasses.

OP, please keep doing what you are. If you are advised to patch, take some photos of DD on different days wearing the patch. If she has glasses, do the same. Then you can prove that you are following the specialist's advice. Best of luck!

PinkCatPhone, Your ability to weigh up the risks and the benefits of the surgery, with the support of the clinician suggests that you are a good parent. The social worker is looking at the issue in a very simplistic way and unless the specifialist says this child MUST have the surgery then they don’t have a leg to stand on. Just make sure that when you take your child to the next appointment that you explain your thinking and ask them to tell you if you are reasonable or not. Then ask them to carefully document and support you and to send a copy of the letter to the SW. Good luck

My DD had squint surgery twice from age 4 and it did not work. I’m not putting her sister through it.

We can’t see from the Internet how severe the squib is so not sure how we can support or not support the operation. However having had a squint as a child minenis 100% successful. I wouldn’t have been happy with my mother for turning down the surgery. I would follow what the consultant says. Would they say yes to surgery if you asked for it. It feels from your post itsnonthe cusp or either surgery or not.

My youngest has an uncorrected squint.
The important thing is to have patchingnif required. The squint is purely cosmetic, often doesn’t work etc etc DS3 is 14 now and has not had the surgery nor does he want it. It was seen as a perfectly acceptable decision when we made it.

Talk to the doctor. A SW cannot rule medical treatment - and they usually get pretty pissed off with SW straying into their ‘role’. I would try and have a chat with the doctor’s secretary - they may be able to document in writing that you have had a proper discussion.

The sooner this type of surgery is done the better. The squint will not correct itself. Leave it too late and the operation won't work.

Nonsense. I had a fairly bad squint corrected age 35. Surgeon did a great job

The sooner this type of surgery is done the better. The squint will not correct itself. Leave it too late and the operation won't work

This is NOT true - we had this exact conversation with the doctor at the time we were making a decision about surgery.

The important thing was patching. We were told the squint made no difference to vision at all.