Time off work to look after sick child

[sassypants72]

Hi, just wondering if any of you lovely mumsnetters have any advice on this.

I got a call from dd's school today asking if I would go and get her as she'd been sick. I was at work and immediately went to talk to my line manager and explain situation, she was really understanding of the fact that there's not much can be done in this situation, but management overheard us talking and called me into the office saying that I will probably get a disciplinary for time off as we are only allowed 3 child sick days a year and I've had a few over last 12 month (dd had flu)

I was a bit like wtf what am I meant to do with a sick child then ??? Both my patients and partners parents are in their 70s so wouldn't be fair to expect them to have her.

Tell me am I wrong in thinking this is outrageous only allowing 3 days a year for child sickness??

Does anybody know the law on this ??

Sorry about long rant / post

3 days off for a sick child a year is not a lot.
If they get chickenpox - that's a week to start with!
D&V - 48 hours after their better.
I have no idea why people think more than 3 days is excessive!

I take time off unpaid or work from home / use flexi (I work term time so can't use annual leave).

I would be speaking to ACAS as other posters have said. That is completely unreasonable of them. If they were paying you that's a different story, but they're not.

ACAS will be able to in the first instance give you the wording to use with them and tell you your legal rights.
They really are very helpful.

Hope DD get's better soon.

Of course they do. It’s pro rata. If you only work 20 full days a year you aren’t entitled to 20 full days off.

You’d have to get the equivalent of 20 of your days off. Therefore the same.

Employee working 8 hours per day = 20 days = 160 hours

Employee working 4 hours per day = 20 days = 80 hours.

They get the same leave proportionately to their contracted hours. Anything else is unlawful.

Where I work we used to get up to 5 days carers leave but they reduced it to 3. This is paid. I'm not aware of a limit on unpaid leave but after my carers days I would take annual leave which they are fine about.

I don't think 3 days is a lot at all. Surely nursery aged children are off loads more than this (or was it just mine picking up all the bugs?). Our nursery had a policy that they wouldn't accept them if they've had calpol 24 hours before (even if it was for teething, not illness). Bloody nightmare for work.

Thanks for the replies. Grandparents are late 70s and not in good health, so don't think it would be very fair of me to ask them to take DD

I will give ACAS a call and see what they say.

Because I work set hours in the care industry flex time is not an option, otherwise I would happily make up the hrs

Where I work has a new manager that appears to be taking the hard line with all the staff unfortunately, not a good way to keep staff in the care industry

Can you offer to make up the hours some other time? That might generate a bit of goodwill

Do people without kids get the extra days off. You need to fid cover for when they are sick.
I know it's hard, we had no cover so I didn't work, I wouldn't have expected my employer to be put out.
Hope you get it sorted soon

OP, My post crossed with your update. If you work shifts, could you offer to swap shifts with someone else, if they are available?

No my partner hasn't had any time off with her, but he works away and overseas a lot so is often not here Is your partner away from home now? Or overseas now?

I find it outrageous that an employer can ‘discipline’ you for having to look after a sick child that school will not keep, when you have no other options.

I’m amazed so many posters are focusing on the DHs ability or availability to help, and not the fact that she’ll face disciplinary proceedings for having to take care of her child!

DH works for a big tech firm and recently had to take over a week off to look after the kids due to a long run of illness one after the other. Not an eyelid batted. He took a mix of parental leave, AL and made up some time in the evening. My employers have been similar. Kids get ill, you have no control!

Yes partner is overseas now

RomanyRoots do you think people without kids want random unpaid days off to be the same? Certainly they should be available to people with non child dependents such as elderly parents, but I doubt anyone's stamping their foot shouting snot fair demanding unpaid days off just to be the same as those off unpaid with sick children.

I have to take annual leave, we don’t get any child sick days.

I find it outrageous that an employer can ‘discipline’ you for having to look after a sick child that school will not keep, when you have no other options.

Any union rep worth their salt would be able to get that stopped under indirect sex discrimination.

RomanyRoots - but what cover? Where would you get this? I’d like to know as it would save us a lot of stress.

I don’t think just not working is an answer. The government wants us to work, whether single parent or couple, all of us, and they’re modelling the benefits system for that exact aim. What is actually needed is flexibility on the employers part and give and take on both sides. Not setting your employees up to fail because they have children and are unlucky enough to not have healthy retired family nearby willing and able to drop everything.

sassypants72 exactly - it's not a good way to keep staff in the care industry. Good, experienced staff who stay long term are gold dust. Can you go above the head of the new manager throwing his or her weight around? He or she is probably a careerist trying to make their mark and impress superiors. Driving out long serving staff will do the opposite! Know your worth, it tends to work in your favour!

Someone will come on in a minute and tell us we shouldn’t have had children if we didn’t have back up childcare for when they are sick

You are legally entitled as some have linked to for emergency time off to care for dependents. This is unpaid unless your Company chooses to pay you.

If they deem this excessive (based on their own circumstances) then they could start a disciplinary process with you - however it is hard to see how they could justify a dismissal based on 3 days off. I suspect it is to ensure that individual don't swing the lead so to speak.

I can sympathise. I am a lone widowed parent. My parents are elderly, inlaws live too far away, friends all work so its always me.

I got a call from the school today to come and pick my DD up today as she had a sore foot and was having problems walking. Turns out it was nothing serious thankfully but I have had to be at home with her today. Most people are ok about it at work but I have one manager who is pretty passive agressive about it and it just makes me feel like c**p. I work 4 days a week so always swap my day around which is a pain really as the reason I am working 4 days a week is so that I can get a break on that day. However, I know reading from others that I am grateful to have this option.

I was lucky last year as I only had to take one day off for my DD but since going into the new school year today is the third day I have had to take off for her.

It is so blinkin' tough and you would have thought by now with all the working parents that companies would have worked something out so that you don't feel guilty for taking time off to look after your child and you're not worked into the ground too for doing so!!

OP - just to clarify on unpaid parental leave. You can take less than a week however you still lose a weeks entitlement if that makes sense.

The law changes relatively recently so now you can have up to 18 weeks unpaid parental leave per child to be taken before the child is 18. You have to have been working for your employer continuously for more than 12 months.

If you took one day of parental leave then this would leave you with 17 weeks remaining.

This isn't like the emergency leave you take though when I child is unexpectedly ill but is meant to be used for things like longer term illnesses and school settling in periods and such like. Also most employees will have a minimum notice period so it's not really feasible to use it in this situation.

It's worth having this knowledge though for your conversation with your manager!

There's some really good information on it here: m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1637

It's really hard.

I'm in France, so different laws, but in my previous company I got 3 days per year (paid) - but only if my child was hospitalized. Other than that I had to take annual leave.

In my new company I get 3 days per year per child paid for sick leave (need a Drs note) and it's cumulative from one year to the next. So i currently have over 12 days available for me.

The only stickler is that I'm not allowed to take them.... DS1 has been off school ill 10 days since October (he has a chronic illness plus gets every bug going). I've only had one day off officially to look after him. The other days my manager insisted I work from home and then complained I was working from home too much

I don't think 3 days is a lot! If little kids are in nursery they often get sickness bugs and then you can't do anything for 2 days after its finished. Disciplinaires are meant to be to vhange behaviour. Not sure what you're meant to do? My daughter had 3 stomach bugs from nursery in about 6 weeks - it was just going round from child to child. I was off on mat leave but each time she was ill for 24 - 48 hours then 2 days of isolation. 3 days in total seems low to me! Well done for those who dont have sick kids but lots of young children pick up a lot. I think it's fair to dock your pay or bonus but disciplining is pointless when you can't do anything differently next time

@sassypants got you. I can't think for one minute they can say only 3 days unpaid in a year before disciplinary (could be a factor in a probation period decision but that's different). Have they got an attendance monitoring procedure? That's what should be used and is in theory supportive. I thought disciplinary was for doing actual naughty things but that's a benefit of the public sector in that we all get the same general deal. You'd have a right to have someone with you in the meeting anyway and of course you've had a copy of all the procedures in the staff handbook haven't you 😇 (heyha bets house on this not being the case). Good luck with it, hopefully they are just saying it as a threat although that's bad enough!

Just to clarify the four weeks per yer year is per child. My dh was able to take 16 weeks of parental leave when I had my twins as we had two older children.

Legally you are entitled to emergency dependants leave to make alternative arrangements for care so usually a half day or full day. It wasn't designed to cover the full absence.

So if you left today, you'd be expected back in tomorrow in most workplaces unless you were fortunate enough to be able to take annual leave for any further days.

DDs been pretty poorly today with lots of vomiting, and I'm shipping her off to her grandparents in the morning for an overnight stay as well as I have a 13hr shift tomorrow.

Feel like a pretty horrible mum at the moment !!