... ... to remind people of protected characteristics.

[sphinxa]

As defined in the The Equality Act – age, disability, gender reassignment, race, religion or belief, sex, sexual orientation, marriage and civil partnership and pregnancy and maternity - are all protected characteristics.

The are protected characteristics for a good reason.

The volume of stereotyping and prejudice on here over the last couple of weeks (or months) has been eye watering : People spouting preconceived opinions that are not based on reason or actual experience and the general feelings towards people based solely on their protected characteristics.

If you think it's just a bit of harmless stereotyping, you're wrong. Stereotypes encourage prejudice. Prejudice encourages discrimination.

I could not agree more.

What do you do when one or more of these protected characteristics is in conflict with another one, though?

For example - religion - Muslim women cannot be in a changing room with a person who has a penis, but a trans woman who has not yet had surgery but who is identifying as a woman may soon be able to assert their right to use the women's changing rooms. So whose needs take priority here - the woman who cannot be in the changing room with a naked person with a penis, or the trans woman?

What about the needs of a traumatised female rape victim, at a Rape Crisis Centre or in a Women's Refuge, who, due to her trauma, cannot be around someone with an intact and functioning penis, even if that person identifies as female and wants to work in Rape Crisis/Women's Aid?

What about the female athletes, born and raised female, who find themselves competing against, and being utterly trounced by athletes who were born male, grew up male, and who therefore have greater strength, muscle mass, endurance and lung capacity than their female opponents, giving them an unbeatable advantage? Let's just forget women's sport shall we?

“Muslim women cannot be in a changing room with a person who has a penis”

I don’t accept this. It would mean that Muslims don’t go to CentreParcs or to many swimming pools. Many, many swimming facilities have shared changing.

We had a muslin lady in our dress shop the other day

She wasn't allowed on to the shop floor partially uncovered if there was a strange man in there

So they must be strict muslims and not so such strict muslims as in just about every religion

So yes, some muslim ladies wont feel able to be in a changing room with a man in there..centre parcs or no

“So yes, some muslim ladies wont feel able to be in a changing room with a man in there..centre parcs or no”

Tough I guess.

Yes but some protected characteristics take precedence don't they?

Because they're more trendy I suppose

I am absolutely shocked and appalled at the way a certain characteristic (being female) is deemed as a second class protected characteristic these days, but if I said that IRL I would be being anti-trans.

I'm not anti-trans I am pro women, and I am baffled at how those two things seem to be unable to coexist these days

due to her trauma - trauma is not a protected characteristic

I believe someone’s comfort and safety takes precedent to someone’s wants.

If a rape victim isnt comfortable being seen by a trans woman then that should absolutely be respected

We had a muslin lady in our dress shop the other day

^^ made me smile

“Muslim women cannot be in a changing room with a person who has a penis

My muslim collegue says you're talking shite, she goes swimming and to the gym etc

Am I correct in understanding that gender reassignment currently means having a gender recognition certificate, and is not synonymous with gender identify ?

Good question from previous poster. What happens when the rights of two different protected groups are at odds?

Also, what about groups like Scientologists or Westboro Baptist Church? Would their religion/beliefs be protected too?

EA definition:

"Gender reassignment
(1)A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

(2)A reference to a transsexual person is a reference to a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

(3)In relation to the protected characteristic of gender reassignment—
(a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected
characteristic is a reference to a transsexual person;
(b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is
a reference to transsexual persons."

Ok, so are coffee shops thatbplay music discriminatory then? What about pizza shops that have cheese in the same kitchen as meat? Failing to accommodate a religion isn’t discrimination surely?

But if something is a protected characteristic, what does that mean practically for someone having a chat on Mumsnet? I understand that it makes it illegal to e.g. deny someone access to a service or turn them down for a job on the basis of those characteristics. But sometimes I see people on here complaining that someone has referred to someone's age or sex as an explanation for their behaviour, and they mention that they're protected characteristics. But that doesn't mean that nobody can refer to that characteristic, ever, does it? We're not engaged in employing people or providing services. I'm waiting for the day when someone comes on and posts "3 under 3 and struggling" and gets told off because it's ageist to assume that a younger child would be more work than an older...

y muslim collegue says you're talking shite, she goes swimming and to the gym etc

Your collegue isnt every muslim women...as i said in my post

SOME muslim women wont be able to do it...

Oops plain

Im tired and not checking my posts properly

I went for my smear on thirsday. Was a male nurse (agency due to sickness) with a female hca as chaperone.
I professed I was uncomfortable and he replied that it was fine and has rebooked me in for this Thursday when the practice nurse will be back.
If he had have proclaimed to be a woman and started ranting that ‘it’s ma’am’ Would i then be expected to just let him do my smear? Are woman’s rights non existent now?

What do you do when one or more of these protected characteristics is in conflict with another one, though?

Exactly this. What do you do when the protection of sex and gender reassignment clash?

Slightly OT, but how is proposing to undergo a process (or a bit of a process) something that is deemed a protected characteristic? Many things get proposed and don't get followed through on.

They can absolutely be in conflict. There was a very controversial one recently where women were being asked to move on planes because very conservative Jewish men wouldn't sit next to them. Never occurred to anyone to move the men

“Muslim women cannot be in a changing room with a person who has a penis”

How ridiculous. I’m pretty sure if a Muslim woman can’t be in a changing room with a penis then she can’t be in a pool with a penis too!

I'd guess it was written to factor in that actual, surgical transition is a long slow process so there is a period where someone would be "living as" their chosen sex (they use the word transexual) but wouldn't have yet had surgery.

A lot has changed since that was drafted

Gay rights trump religious rights apparently

Stories about cristian b&b owners losing discrimination cases against gay couples

Religion trumps sex- no women bishops

Its like a weird and long winded game of Rock Paper Scissors

@StreetwiseHercules Mon 28-Jan-19 14:23:55
“Muslim women cannot be in a changing room with a person who has a penis”

I don’t accept this. It would mean that Muslims don’t go to CentreParcs or to many swimming pools. Many, many swimming facilities have shared changing.

Many swimming pools also have Ladies i.e. Muslim women only swimming sessions.

Which I suppose would also be buggered up as these men can claim they are women and attend anyway