... ... to remind people of protected characteristics.

[sphinxa]

As defined in the The Equality Act – age, disability, gender reassignment, race, religion or belief, sex, sexual orientation, marriage and civil partnership and pregnancy and maternity - are all protected characteristics.

The are protected characteristics for a good reason.

The volume of stereotyping and prejudice on here over the last couple of weeks (or months) has been eye watering : People spouting preconceived opinions that are not based on reason or actual experience and the general feelings towards people based solely on their protected characteristics.

If you think it's just a bit of harmless stereotyping, you're wrong. Stereotypes encourage prejudice. Prejudice encourages discrimination.

Now that is the mark of intelligent debate. Sexist much?
As is that. You don’t have to be a woman to be hysterical.

At best it has sexist overtones given the origin of the word:
www.etymonline.com/word/hysterical

They can't move everyone.
That is for the prison service to manage. But as it’s been happening for ten years and nobody noticed, your exaggerated what if isn’t really relevant.

Go do some reading. Pretty much any discrimination is based on perceived risk and fear.

I've read plenty thanks. Women not wanting male bodied in their female only spaces isn't about perceived risk, it's about real risk and about womens' desire for privacy and informed consent being removed.

At best it has sexist overtones given the origin of the word
At best it’s a distraction from the actual topic in hand.

Plenty of words have dubious origins. As always, it comes down to context and intent.

I take it Yabbers reported my post? Shows what they think about Muslin women having a swim session they can attend.
Nothing to stop trans identifying men from lobbying for a separate swim session, just like women did.

Fairenuff
I think the Muslim women would cause that much uproar that the trans woman (with penis) would not be allowed to join in. Fuck knows though, I could be wrong 🤷‍♀️

More likely, they would just stop going.

Women not wanting male bodied in their female only spaces isn't about perceived risk, it's about real risk

The risks always were “real”. We’re more educated now, that’s the only difference.

I take it Yabbers reported my post?

Nope. I haven’t seen anything on this thread that warranted reporting. A poster has to go some way to have me press that button.

Nothing to stop trans identifying men from lobbying for a separate swim session, just like women did.

I absolutely agree with this. I think it’s a sensible solution.

Can you define the word 'sex' that is a protected characteristic

Yabbers: 'Put simply, don’t discriminate against anyone no matter how they present or what is between their legs.'

That's not a definition. That is just your opinion.

When we are talking about Acts and the law, we need to be able to define the words we use.

Otherwise it's all nonsense. So now women are having to rely on a law that can't even define them. And this is what you are advocating for?

I’m not a Muslim woman. I am a woman. I don’t want to share a changing room, prison cell, smear test, or refuge space with someone who calls themselves a woman, but still has a penis. End of.

Brilliant but they would be discriminating. They would be transphobic. The pool would have to allow the transwoman and her penis in. So I think it's likely that the rest of the women would give it up and go and start a book club or something else instead.

MadameGazelleIsMyHomegirl Apparently you just need educated

*Can you define the word 'sex' that is a protected characteristic

Put simply, don’t discriminate against anyone no matter how they present or what is between their legs.*

How is that a definition? That is absolutely meaningless..

My apologies, Yabbers, let my temper get the better of me. Pretty pissed of with MNHQ deleting it.

Are we getting knuckles wrapped for wandering out of FWR?

As you said.. sex is a protected characteristic and as a result, women should not have to compromise their safety, privacy and dignity in changing rooms, toilets, refuges, hospitals and prisons. Or give up their rights such as the word 'woman' being deemed offensive or not defined correctly, which essentially undermines all protective laws and guidelines.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer
Its like a weird and long winded game of Rock Paper Scissors

Yup. I was thinking the same thing.

sphinxa

Can I just point out that just because "you, he, she, it, or them" have a protected characteristic it doesn't mean that "you, he, she, it, or them" are not being an arsehole.

Yabbers
Given the incredibly small number of transgender prisoners who have been housed in female prisons with a tiny number of problems

There have been problems. Your argument seems to be "Oh well, prison officers rape men and women already in prison, why worry about a few additional risks?" Why do you not care at all about women's safety?

women only sessions, supported by female staff in private facilities that are closed to other members of the public

But what does that mean when there is no clear definition in law surrounding this of the words 'women' and 'female'.

I agree, @Fairynuff - how can women’s safety and rights be protected, if we cannot define what is or is not a woman? When posting the dictionary definition of woman - adult, human female - is transphobic, and when our words are being erased - chest feeding instead of breastfeeding, bleeders or menstruators instead of women having periods - how can we hope to preserve our sex-based protections?

Why is it OK to tell women they can’t talk about things like periods, smears, birth, breastfeeding or FGM because it excludes penis-having-trans-women? There is a fuckton of stuff that people talk about, that I cannot experience - do I throw a hissy fit and demand they stop talking about them? No, I do not - because the world does not revolve around me.

I notice that no-one seems to be objecting to talk about prostate exams or testicular cancer - presumably because these happen to men, and no-one wants to erase men.

Transactivism seems, to me, to be institutionally misogynist, in nature. Lesbians must accept ‘lady penis’, women must shut up and accept men in any and all of their spaces, women must not talk about anything related to being female, women must give up their spaces on women-only short lists, or in jobs such as ‘Women’s Officer’, women who have trained since childhood in a sport must sit back and watch, without complaint, as male bodies people, who have grown up with all the physical advantages that brings, identify as women and ‘win’ at sports like cycling - and if we dare to object, then ‘bashing a TERF’ is entirely acceptable, even if you are six foot plus and male bodied and it is an elderly woman you are bashing. Screaming at shop staff - that is fine too. Doxxing and rape threats - entirely reasonable ways to confront something you don’t like.

And just for the record, no, I am not transphobic - I am fucking furious.

This seems to have been derailed by the trans debate!

I was referring to the prejudice and stereotyping on MN across a lot of the protected characteristics but especially racism, disability, and ageism.

People are increasingly making assumptions about people or making less favourable statements regarding people based on characteristics rather than based on fact.

It's becoming quite a grim place to be!