Neighbour stole our woodland?

[TwittleBee]

Our DGrandad left me and my sister his woodland when he passed away a few years ago. It isn't anything that special (as in its not protected and hasn't any distinguished species) but does have a TPO on a couple of trees. It is a place that my sister and I visit occasionally and thought that perhaps we could use it as a place to "wild camp" with the kids this summer for a few weekends. Even had insipiration from what George Clark created in a piece of woodland in his series Amazing Spaces and thought maybe one day with enough money we could do the same.

Anyway, we went down there this weekend to have a look to see if we could maybe clear a patch for a good tent destination, Thought it be good to do this now before everything starts flourishing in the spring.

To our shock it's all been fenced off and there has been some very obvious clearing of trees and shrubs! We knocked on the nearest house to ask what's happened to our woodland and the couple that lived there informed us that they have now taken it as their own and have started keeping it in order for past couple months. They said that it now makes our land legally theirs?

Obviously we shall be seeking legal advice but in the meantime, can what they claim actually be correct?

Just seems so unfair? Surely that would mean I could just fence off any land and claim it as my own?

I'm skimmed the thread, but has anyone sent you to garden law yet? www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Although I would guess they will suggest 'self remedy'. Ie remove the fences. Get them to prove they have a right to be there, not vice versa.

I would;
Go and see a solicitor asap.
Depending on what they say go back to the CFs, say you have seen a solicitor, and whatever misapprehension they were under it is your land and they have no rights to be on it.

Go back lots and make your camping plans.

If they resist, follow through with solicitors letter / action.

Camping in the woods will be lovely. You do not want aggro from neighbours. They could get up to all disingenuous nonsense like calling the police about ‘people in the woods ‘ (in some areas illegal migrants make camps in woods), noise, calling the fire brigade about your campfire (‘fire in the woods ‘).

Give them the get out of ‘it was all a misunderstanding’ and go legal nuclear if they don’t take it.

If they have been accessing the land for years, while your DGD was alive do seek advice, legal advice, before doing snytnkngu.

The reason lawyers are expensive is because they and ultimately they alone in honest situations, have the means to protect what is yours. If they have been snnmng this for ages, like the CF friends of a PP, it will be in their interests to get a lawyer, as they stand to gain £Ks worth of land. So you talk to a lawyer before they do!

Do as said above. The other week a man who had lived in someone else's house for 20 years was given title to it which surprised me as I vaguely remembered the law on adverse possession had changed.
www.shoosmiths.co.uk/client-resources/legal-updates/fraudsters-are-entitled-to-make-use-of-the-law-of-adverse-possession.aspx

If it applies at all they need to have taken it over for a longer period than your "few years". First buy at the Land Registry your deeds to show ownership. Then you or ideally your solicitor should write to them telling them to remove their fence etc. I would also go down there next week with a new sign and erect it saying Private Property or something along those lines. If the new fences are quite useful and will keep other intruders out I suppose you could offer to buy them but you need to make it clear the neighbours are not allowed into the wood and you reserve the right to sue them for trespass, taking your trees down etc.

contact solicitor first thing tomorrow and then the council. Prior to your visit yesterday when was the last time you visited and when was the last time you did anything there eg tree work? Do you have a receipt for any tree work you did that proves you were maintaining it within the last 10 years. I think they are beyond cf!

Lawyer obviously for the land issue, then shop them to your local council tree officer for the damage to the TPO trees. If they have taken any of them down it’s an up to 20k fine PER TREE www.eden.gov.uk/planning-and-building/trees/protecting-trees/tree-preservation-orders/

You don’t want that fine!

Okay so time line

DG died about 8 years ago now
We visit that woodland regularly, like once every couple months just to walk about with the dogs and check on the land. We haven't ever seen anyone else on it as we had a private property sign on road access to it

But we didn't go and visit it since November as Xmas etc in the way so i think the fence has been up since then and tbat was what the neighbours said.

We did tell them we had the deeds to the land but they said that didn't mean anything as they now looked after it and had fenced it?

The only thing you can do here is get legal advice OP, but I don't think they can claim it just by chucking a fence around it.

Also, find out when they purchased the house (will be online, just search the address and will show when last purchased) if they haven't lived there for 12 years +, that is your proof they haven't been tending to it for that long

This happened to us too. It was a piece of land owned by my DF. He was ill with cancer for 3 years so didn't go over there in that time and it was a while before we got there after he died. The neighbours had 'added' it to their garden and were growing veg. had kids play equipment on it etc. Apparently, they have to have made an effort to find out who owned the land before doing it and then be on it for 12 years so we got our land back. They were definitely cheeky fuckers.

They are batshit. I don't know how you've resisted temptation to smash the fence down there and then! Maybe you should put a fence round their garden and tell them it's now yours and their deeds mean fuck all? See how they like it!

I think you should host a Mumsnet mass dog walk in your woodland!

I’m furious on your behalf. Rally some friends and get the fence down.

How long have those neighbours lived there?

(You can find out on Zoopla etc)

Are the stumps still there? If so, what diameter are these, how many are there and how tall is the general height of the trees? There may have been a breach of the Forestry Act 1967 (lack of felling licence).

Ask your solicitor whether they have a copy of the TPO. If they don't, search for your local council on Google with the word 'tpo map' and see if they have their tpo's available to download from their website. If not, contact your council and ask for a copy. Tell them that a pdf would be fine. You don't need a paper copy. Some will charge for paper copies but they would have to be particularly tight to charge for pdf's. Check what is protected on the Schedule and where it is on the plan. If its a woodland tpo, everything will be protected within the marked area, no matter its age.

If tpo trees felled, the landowner is responsible for replacement planting however you could reasonably go to the small claims court to abstract money from the neighbours. The council may wish to interview you and your neighbours under caution.

You could attempt to get an arboriculturist to value the missing trees as assets and then present this to the neighbour and threaten them with small claims court.

Once you have confirmed title to the site, carefully remove all of your neighbours items from site, perhaps to their boundary and tell them they have a week to collect otherwise it'll get removed from site.

Good luck with those CF's!

NicoAndTheNiners why stop at the garden? Wait until they have gone out and put a fence around the whole fucking house

Some other neighbours of ours claimed a bit of waste land between their house and ours and there was a definite formal process they had to go through via the Land Registry people. We had a letter from the land registry agency with diagrams, etc saying Mr X of X address wanted to claim the land and they were writing to all close neighbours to see if anyone objected/reckoned that the land was theirs, etc.

I suppose it would help if you got the fence-builders to confess when they built fence, too (you want a precise date). Ideally in an email or something you can try to hold up as objectively sent & dated.

Come to think of it, to fence off even a small woodland is a lot of fencing so whoever supplied the materials will have records of that delivery.

Get your skates on. Don't leave it.

And I believe that people trying to claim land have to have a genuine belief that nobody currently owns/uses the land. The fact you have a private property sign up means that they can't claim this!

You can’t just put up a fence and claim land, like planting a flag in the Wild West!

I’m angry for you too op. They think possession is 9 tenths of the law or whatever. From reading comments from knowledgeable posters it seems you will get it back. In fact you haven’t actually lost it. They have just trespassed on your land.

Get lots of pictures today. Pictures of the fence, trees etc. Can you climb over the fence at all?

Go back to your original solicitor ASAP. He will give advice on best steps to take.

Strike while the irons hot too, get round there this morning then update us. This is pure popcorn bizniss!

Raging for you. I’m sure you’ll get it sorted out.

They'er trying to gain adverse possession. The think they are being clever.

The first steps to gain adverse possession include fencing off and making a social claim to the land. That is what they are doing. But they have skipped the first step... looking for the deeds and a registered owner. If you have those then they are in the public domain and CFers have chosen to ignore them!

It takes 12 years, not 12 weeks, to claim adverse possession. They are just hoping you are thick as a brick and will go away!

As others have said, solicitor, claim for your legal fees, for reinstating the land, taking down the fence (even if you want one), report to the council for the TPO issue and don't stop laughing at them! Show no weakness. CFers like these have no shame and will tell all and sundry that you have robbed them etc. So, as I said, just keep on laughing at them, tell everyone you know how astounded you are that people can be so stupid!

Gosh it’s it’s a long time since I did land law, but the neighbours may be thinking of adverse possession. I think before the system of land registration was properly in force if you could prove you had used and maintained the land for over ten years you could claim it was yours. I think land registration made this a lot harder tho.

Obviously putting a fence for a couple of months means nothing in this context and if they have been removing timber from the wood without permission then you may have a claim against them.

Hold on so all we have to do is fence round a piece of land that we want and it's ours

Anyone else going to be waiting outside b&q for fence panels when it opens

That's really shocking!!

I hope it can sorted, OP.