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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Neighbour stole our woodland?

983 replies

TwittleBee · 27/01/2019 07:00

Our DGrandad left me and my sister his woodland when he passed away a few years ago. It isn't anything that special (as in its not protected and hasn't any distinguished species) but does have a TPO on a couple of trees. It is a place that my sister and I visit occasionally and thought that perhaps we could use it as a place to "wild camp" with the kids this summer for a few weekends. Even had insipiration from what George Clark created in a piece of woodland in his series Amazing Spaces and thought maybe one day with enough money we could do the same.

Anyway, we went down there this weekend to have a look to see if we could maybe clear a patch for a good tent destination, Thought it be good to do this now before everything starts flourishing in the spring.

To our shock it's all been fenced off and there has been some very obvious clearing of trees and shrubs! We knocked on the nearest house to ask what's happened to our woodland and the couple that lived there informed us that they have now taken it as their own and have started keeping it in order for past couple months. They said that it now makes our land legally theirs?

Obviously we shall be seeking legal advice but in the meantime, can what they claim actually be correct?

Just seems so unfair? Surely that would mean I could just fence off any land and claim it as my own?

OP posts:
DeaflySilence · 04/02/2019 19:05

"Sorry I didn't update sooner!"

Thank you for coming back and updating at all, @TwittleBee. So often posters don't, and I'm over-invested interested in your outcome! Grin

I hope you'll come back again and tell us the outcome.

HJWT · 04/02/2019 19:32

@TwittleBee brilliant, so happy for you all 😁

flowergrrl77 · 04/02/2019 20:31

Awesome update! Looking forward to next weeks instalment!

FromDespairToHere · 04/02/2019 20:41

I'm another one who's totally over-invested in this!

Bluelady · 04/02/2019 20:43

I was wondering about this. Thanks for the update, OP.

MouseUtopia · 04/02/2019 22:31

Make sure you contact the council over the felled trees in case they report you for cutting down the trees that they in fact felled. They sound weird and might try this. If they've touched a tpo tree, make sure they're reported for that as well.

Bekabeech · 05/02/2019 06:48

OP just incase - do take notice of Xenia's advice - she has legal experience. Wink

VanillaSugarr · 05/02/2019 07:01

blatant placemarking as we have similar. Will RTFT later.

LakieLady · 05/02/2019 07:31

The most famous case being a house in Central London that was handed over to squatters after 12 years occupation with no council action.

I used to work at Lambeth Council. While I was there, a former squatter claimed adverse possession on a big, 3-bed detached house he'd lived in for 25 years. The council had completely forgotten they owned it, and it led to an internal inquiry and a massive effort by the legal department to identify all the property they owned.

That house is quite possibly worth over a mill now.

CoraPirbright · 05/02/2019 08:47

Thanks so much for your update OP. OH to be a fly on the wall when the fuckers read that letter! I would make copies of the deeds and then keep them in the glove box of your car - that way if they do cause trouble when you visit you always have the paperwork to hand and dont have to worry about always trying to remember it. Best of luck with it all!

DGRossetti · 05/02/2019 09:34

There was similar in Cyprus. My family farmed land for generations under Ottoman law and claimed. Then the goverment took it over, but family fought in the courts and won. Land worth millions and government had sold it. Government the decided to rescined the Ottoman law so we lost

A few years ago, there was a programme on radio (can't recall if it was R4 or local ..) about a couple that had decided to buy a holiday home in Cyprus. Bottom line was they (and many others) were conned, as the land (and the house) had been acquired during the war, and was subject to a reparations agreement which meant it was never the vendors to sell. Government repossessed it for the original owners, and the investors lost everything.

Maelstrop · 05/02/2019 09:47

I am also really worried they will make our visits there a misery by calling the police. Seems hassle to have to remember to take copies of deeds and ID every time we want to visit there - but I should imagine that will be really important to remember when we start camping there for weekends in the Spring.

Scan/email to yourself so you have it handy on your phone. Don't take the originals out and about in case they get damaged/lost. Do the same with a copy of the solicitor's letter.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 05/02/2019 14:31

Great update👏

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 05/02/2019 15:32

If they call the police again keep a note of the date and the name of the attending officer and which station they are from. If they persist then you can call to the station concerned and point out that they are maliciously involving the police when they are aware no crime has been committed. I imagine the police will probably get fed up with it too and give them a warning about wasting police time. They won't be allowed to keep doing it indefinitely.

PCohle · 05/02/2019 15:45

I wouldn't worry too much about them calling the police. Trespass is a civil offence so the police are usually wholly disinterested. This comes up a lot in MN parking threads Grin

florascotia2 · 05/02/2019 16:06

Am pleased that OP has got legal advice which supports her rights.

Sorry to hijack the thread with an essay, but:

Squatters' rights are not essentially linked to the Black Death. Almost all land in England and Wales at that time (1340s and later recurrences) was held by feudal tenure - ie it belonged to a lord and was occupied by his tenants (on a wide range of varying conditions - eg for money rent or in return for labour). There were some ordinary people who held freehold land, but they were a tiny minority. Circumstances varied from place to place, but some historians argue that there was actually a degree of overpopulation before the 1340s Black Death and a ready supply of tenants ready to take up dead peoples' tenancies, at least for a while. In other places, because of famines in England in the years before the Black Death, the amount of land actively cultivated - by lords or peasants - was already declining. There were reports of vacant plots with no-one on them.

In many places, after the Black Death, ordinary people left land to look for a better deal (lower rent/fewer services) in another village or town; lords even tried to force 'run-away' tenants to come back and work the land they had previously occupied, so as to get the benefit of either their labour or the money rents that they paid.

Some villages were completely abandoned as populations fell, though typically in the late 14th/early 15th cent, not in the 1340s. However, these were often in the most marginal and difficult (eg upland) areas. The land was not usually occupied or claimed by squatters.

Lots of land was enclosed and taken out of cultivation - but this was usually by land-owners, not squatters. Sometimes landowners also enclosed common lands formerly used by their tenants to keep livestock; this led to conflict. Landowners wanted to use enclosed land for sheep. (Higher wages caused by shortage of peasant labour and lower prices caused by reduced demand for grain made arable farming unprofitable. Sheep were much less labour-intensive and more profitable; there was a thriving market - including exports - for wool.)

Peasants did sometimes - often, in places - make use of vacant land that they had no formal tenancy agreement for. But this did not mean they claimed complete ownership of it. Lords almost everywhere found themselves unable to enforce the old labour services demanded of their tenants, or to limit their tenants' personal freedom as they had done in the past. So serfdom disappeared. But neither of these (very big) changes was the same as 'claiming squatters' rights'.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 05/02/2019 16:14

I would give the council Tree Officer a ring and explain the situation. If they've interfered with a TPO they could get a £20k fine (if the law hasn't changed since my horticulture course). You don't want to get that fine.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 05/02/2019 16:39

If they've interfered with a TPO they could get a £20k fine (if the law hasn't changed since my horticulture course)

I have a feeling that this fine applies to each tree (ie 5 trees = up to £100K)

We had to look into this regarding trees in our garden a few years ago, and although I can't recall details, this stuck in my mind because I wanted to be 1,000,000% sure there were no TPOs on them.

Mummylife2018 · 05/02/2019 17:35

@TwittleBee Presumably the Solicitor mentioned in their letter that they don't have a leg to stand on legally? I admire your will power, as I'd be down there right now!! Basking in the glory!! (In other words, kicking the fence down!!!)

Poloshot · 05/02/2019 17:44

This is ridiculous. Hope it turns out to be an easy solution and they're just changing their arm OP

hopeishere · 05/02/2019 18:36

Blatant tree plant!

AleFailTrail · 05/02/2019 19:07

Very interested myself....blatantly place marking....

Does that mean the thread is mine now??

RevolvingBananaHaiku · 05/02/2019 20:08

Just gonna put down roots here...

yorkiemummy · 05/02/2019 20:50

I might just fence off my neighbours garden this weekend as I haven't seen them in it since the summer!
CFs

JeezYouLoon · 05/02/2019 21:30

That's brilliant news OP, bet they'll be fuming when they get the letter, I'd love to be a fly on the wall. Actually I'd love to know why exactly they thought they could stake a claim CF!