Advice on colleague

[Mrsrockwell]

Namechanged for this... long post!

I have a colleague, let’s call her Judy, who has been at the place where I work for about 20 years. I joined 4 years ago.

She had a massive role, and was struggling to keep on top of all aspects of it, so a section of it was given to me a couple of years ago. Let’s say she runs 3 departments and I run 2. We have other areas which we run separately which don’t overlap.

The 5 departments should really run together with similar structures and aims. However, Judy has a totally different approach from me, and also extremely long-winded paper systems and refuses to change them. As one example, I’ve found a way of doing something electronically on my own in about 45 minutes that she likes to do with 4 others over 2 hours, using about 800 pieces of paper to cross-reference. When I suggested this method to her she said she preferred to do it the paper way and it had always worked fine for her. No problem - I’m not remotely bothered I just thought it would save her time.

Another example was asking her about how a particular system works which affects all 5 departments, because it seemed to me that there were quite a few loopholes. Again she said to me that it had always worked fine, no need to change anything. I didn’t press her on this but did find a way of streamlining it slightly.

I know she is really annoyed that I have this job as she didn’t want to give up any part of what she did. She basically told me this and how it was her favourite part of the job (I know it wasnt because she could choose what she wanted to give away). Anyway.

So my two areas are running really really well with a few new systems in place, and I’ve been pleased. Our boss (we share the same boss) has also been really pleased but has been asking me about how well I feel I communicate with Judy, and wondering how Judy could do a few things in a similar way to me. It’s not just the systems, it’s also what we spend our time on.

Judy categorically won’t budge on anything and is very slow to respond to requests for info or to share what her plans are until the last minute (if at all). This creates a lot of tension across some department leads.

Last week she was meant to turn up for a presentation but didn’t - she got caught up in something.

I have recently created some data across all 5 departments and shared this with department leads. Our boss has said that he thinks Judy feels a bit threatened because really she should be producing this kind of thing (but doesn’t). He’s been asking me what my ideas are to improve communication, and reiterating that I am not doing anything wrong, but my efficiency and work rate are very high and that this is possibly exposing Judy (he didn’t say this in exactly those words but this is what he meant).

Does anyone have any advice on what I could do? My instinct is to keep out of her way and to run things as best I can with my 2 departments because whenever I share ideas with her they are ignored or rejected. She shares nothing back. I could also slow down or not share across the 5 departments but it seems a bit churlish if I’m doing it for my own and it’s helpful to others. But I’m keen not to create a problem. Judy has been there many years, a lot of what she does is great and I really like her as a person. Am I doing something wrong do you think? If so what do I need to change?

She is in job protection mode and your boss doesn't think she's great. Having said that he's asking you 'how to improve communication' and how as he hasn't the balls to have a word with her. Best strategy is blind copy him on requests to her for info so he knows you are keeping communication lines open. Cc him in on suggestions that benefit all so he knows you are proactively streamlining. And keep your distance. She sees you as a threat. If it all gets nasty the emails are proof you've done your role to the best of your ability & it's her with the prob.

Beryl

The very first advice it gives is for you to assess if a perceived problem is your responsibility or a priority for you

Well that’s interesting. I think I have a responsibility to work effectively with Judy. And although it’s not a “personal”’priority for me to ensure our departments work well together, as a whole company we should
both be responsible for them being aligned better I think.

So it’s something I could avoid but I probably shouldn’t. If that makes sense.

I've had something similar in a previous role. My advice is to ensure a paper trail if you aren't in the habit of doing so. Put everything in an email,even it's just to confirm something you discussed verbally. I don't know what your email culture is but cc your boss if appropriate. That can get some people's backs up though,so it depends on what is common in your workplace. Some places I worked it was standard,other places it would be seen as passive aggressive.
I found that it made sure I could never be accused of not communicating/purposely excluding someone from a project and it makes it harder for the other person to exclude you as it can highlight their poor communication. Cover your backside!

Pink - Yes I will take that advice. I do regularly ask her advice on things (and take it) - I do rate her in some aspects. But I could do more in this I think.

Boss did say she was feeling a bit “threatened” although he did qualify that and say it was quite a strong word.

Her 800 page system was definitely long before google drive. It just irritates me slightly that 4 department leaders (including one of mine) have to spend hours on something that takes one person no time at all. But I’ve suggested it and it’s been rejected so I’ve moved on and accepted that is how she likes to do it. I’m honestly not pressing her to change lots of things, I guess I’ve just changed a few things for my own 2 departments.

drop

Thank you. I do a lot of emailing and so does my boss. Judy gets them and reads them but rarely replies. I think emailing confirmation of conversations would be likely to get her back up and create more of a rift to be honest. But it’s a good idea. I could keep a log. But I also don’t want to become fixated on it all.

Beryl - just bought that book off Amazon. Will be reading it on Monday when it arrives.
Thank you

Are you responsible for her productivity?

If the answer is no then I'd take a step back because the person that is could feel like youre stepping on their toes too.

in a former role as an operations manager I was responsible for overseeing a group of shift managers. New..ish recruit was very good and brought some interesting ideas with him but he was a bit of a brown nose and often interfered in matters that were ultimately my concern, not his.
What started off as being welcome input began to appear to be self promotion at the expense of his colleagues.

There's a fine line. I'd be careful you don't cross it or you may find that what has previously been received with praise and thanks may get an all together different response.

Judy has been telling your boss that you are difficult to communicate with. She's probably also told him plenty of other things too so you need to be very clear and fair when engaging so nothing is misread.

The only way for this to change is for your boss to say he wants xyz processes standardised and he therefore has to pick one way of doing it. Let him choose what and why. If he won't do that then you'll have to continue as is in a more silo'd fashion and hope she leaves

Your manager really needs to stop up, that's what he's paid and there to do. You shouldn't be managing or encouraging Judy to work a different way!

*step up

Your boss sounds like a bit of a wet lettuce. All you can do is offer to show Judy your system. I've been in workplaces where long term colleagues refuse to consider a more modern way of doing things and the only thing that works is when the boss puts their foot down and insists they switch over.

In your situation id find some way of chatting to Judy about the company and department history and her part in it, and what she views as success and the pressures on her, and share what you've learnt from her too...

If you already know this stuff, its all good, but when dealing with someone who you think needs to change (and that's the not the same as them actually needing to change, though they might need to a little) you do need to know this. Once you do, you can find common ground. Its all about surfacing assumptions and values that neither of you know about each other.

People generally go to work to do their best, and they don't try to make things hard for other people, but their "stress" behaviours (ie thise that appear when they are feeling threatened) can make it so. She needs to feel you respect her and what she can do, and only then will she move from when she is right now (assuming she will).

Cover your back, sounds to me like she is complaining about you. If there is a problem you will suffer as she has been there longer.

The boss struggles to manage Judy and is trying to get you to do it. I would push back on this - you work in parallel with her and it's not up to you to change how she works.

Could he be having similar conversations with her about you?

You and Judy are same grade presumably? I feel sorry for Judy, she knows what she knows and is comfortable with that. It may not be a efficient or the best way but it's not up to you to persuade her. The poor thing probably feels threatened which then makes her react negatively. If your manage, Mr Wet Lettuce, wants procedural changes then he MUST enforce it, otherwise he's going to cause a very nasty working atmosphere between you and Judy.

Controversially for this thread, I'm not certain the boss is being a wet lettuce, he might just be giving you the chance to resolve it between yourselves as he knows that any solution you two come to together will be more likely to stick. I would give the chance (time bounded) for this as a boss of people who run teams within my overall dept.

I am wondering if your boss could implement a systems and processes review perhaps some sort of quality audit (groan groan groan).

That would document how each department operates, how long stuff takes and then boss could decide which processes to implement across all departments. It does have value as there may be some long winded bits that still have a purpose or it could be clear to Judy that the reason for that way doesn't exist anymore.

I do think you need to speak to your boss and ask how you can influence Judy when she shuts down all communication about change?

Thank you.

Boss really isn’t a wet lettuce but I think prefers people to come to their own resolutions. He is incredibly diplomatic and people love working for him.

I think Judy has been complaining about me yes, I assume saying that I am possibly interfering? Perhaps because I talk to department leaders about things (but I do always make Judy aware) and it is completely ok for me to do that - Boss kept reiterating that I had done nothing wrong and should keep doing what I’m doing and that everyone should feel free to talk to every department leader because that’s how everything improves but that it should perhaps be more two-way in terms of sharing information. But I get zero from Judy. He also repeatedly said how incredibly efficient and reliable and quick I was and suggested at one point that being a little slower might help as people (he meant Judy) might feel less threatened.

I’m not responsible for her productivity but we all work together for the same company in that area. He is keen to work out ways we could work together more closely and wants the 5 departments to not be so split in terms of how we do things.

We have a large document that Judy has always done at the end of the year on her own. She’s incredibly last minute with it, and liaises with an administrator and they put it together. It covers stuff for all 5 departments and last year I asked (in an email and in person and reminded at the time they were putting it together) during the year for a couple of small but very specific changes to be made, which only affect my 2 departments but which would help. This was not done and when I asked Judy said she’d just forgotten, the administrator had been held up etc. Quite annoying.

Then one other thing - she and one of her department leaders were meant to come up with a list by probably July last year. It was something that was meant to happen between one of her departments and one of mine. It never happened- I didn’t ask about it because it wasn’t a huge priority and I assumed Judy hadn’t prioritised it - the department leader said she was trying to get Judy to work with her on it but it was not being sorted. Judy then repeatedly told me that it was the department leader who was messing things up and that it should be sorted by October. Then by December. I didn’t approach her at all about this. Then January. Now she says she has the list sorted and wants to do a brief presentation to one of my departments on it. She said she would do this last Monday but never came. Then she said she would do it this coming Monday (I emailed her last week for the information to discuss with my relevant department leader - silence. I emailed her (after trying to phone 3 times) and asked her again for the information to discuss with my department leader - no reply. So I’ve not had the information and again don’t know if she will be coming on Monday.

Doesn’t that sound a bit deliberately annoying? Department leader came to me tearing her hair out saying Judy has this list, they’ve worked on it together but Judy’s kept it and isn’t giving it to her.

I think I will try and talk to Judy more. It’s just she’s normally flying around in a massive hurry and does always complain to me about how people hold her up by talking.

I really don’t mind at all if she keeps her own systems - but I don’t want to be complained about if I can change something about my approach, and I also don’t want to be messed around with things like this July information. I know that it’s not just me that this happens to, so it’s not personal, but it is irritating.

Random that’s a really good idea. Thank you. I meet with boss every fortnight but he’s very approachable and always keen to listen and help. He’s incredibly professional and would only ever say things like “it’s very delicate” or “very complicated” when discussing people on the same grade.

So you and your team all sat around in a room and Judy didn't show?

What did the boss say about that?

There is a layer in between me and the Boss. They are also very good and helpful and always have good ideas.

I’m not sure if I should discuss it with one of them. They will know exactly what the problem is and might be able to be more direct with me than Boss is, or have good advice. But I don’t want it to become a Massive Thing.

sack no last Monday not in July. It was a particular department and we meet every Monday anyway but Judy was meant to be there. The department leader knew she was meant to be there but the department didn’t. Department leader rushed off to find Judy but she was in another meeting. I just winged the meeting - department didn’t realise but obviously department leader did. Department leader said it was typical and this happens all the time. I covered casually saying how I’m sure she was caught up unexpectedly.

Boss hides feelings well with this kind of thing. He listened but didn’t really react. I know he would have been annoyed because he’s incredibly organised himself and wouldn’t appreciate being put in that position.

You can approach all of this has personal development for you.

I want to be able to work with Judy better but I haven't found a tactic that works yet, can I have help and feedback? I'm worried she feels threatened what other options are there to approach x?

I have streamlined X Y Z is there anything else I can take on to help Judy out?

It is frustrating because when someone new joins they see things through fresh eyes and are often the ones to ask questions and help implement positive change. Of course humans are naturally change resistant... excel is my thing but I love seeing how others do stuff to see if it's more efficient etc always pick new stuff up from others!

Harp on about "value added" - where can I add value?

sack no last Monday not in July

I didn't mention July.

If Judy is not doing work assigned it’s for your boss to deal with- definitely do not go around talking bad of her as could blow up in your face.

I would really recommend staying out of it, she has been there 20years and stuck in her ways.

If your boss wants changes and standalisation it’s for him to have a meeting and let you all share ideas, then for him to pick and say which he wants kept and which will now become new policy.

Keep doing your job the best you can and don’t get mixed up in the politics!