People who don't vaccinate..,

[boraboring]

I've just had a discussion with someone who has chosen not to vaccinate their child.

They believed that their child would get autism, and said 'well, if your child is vaccinated then why do you have to worry about whether my child is vaccinated or not?'

I've not been on mn long so sorry if this is something that's discussed a lot.

AIBU to think it's scary that people don't vaccinate for these reasons? (I thought he autism thing was a myth anyway and proven to be?)

I read that anti vaxxers are in the top 10 major global health risks in 2019.

I just don't get it. It's compulsory in France now isn't it?

I wish it was here. My son is 3 months old and immunocompromised and I am scared he will end up catching something awful.

Why lavida if someone doesn’t trust the data in a certain vaccination, why should they not occasionally use paracetamol?

I don’t give my children the flu vaccines but have the MMR. Incidentally, I don’t give them nurofen either due to recent studies showing it can be problematic.

@EwItsAHooman I want to send the RDahl link to my SIL so badly!!

@planespotting send it then

When my d's was dx with aspergers, his Dr was visibly furious (word is not strong enough) with Andrews fucking Wakefield

12 children at a birth day party does not make a scientific study!

Oh look, he has patented a single vaccine....

‘if someone doesn’t trust the data in a certain vaccination, why should they not occasionally use paracetamol?’

I thought that was a comment aimed at those who don’t trust Big Pharma - because it's not logical to trust it on products such as paracetamol (which are hepatotoxic and not tested on DC) if you don’t trust it on ones such as vaccines which have.

That some people might have only some jabs/medicines for medical reasons is totally different to a mistrust (inconsistently practiced) in Big Pharma

“Can anyone point me towards independent, scientific research that I can quote from and shove under her face to explain that vaccinations DONT cause autism etc? I'd be so grateful!”

This is like my mother. The thing is, it’s like a cult. A simple pubmed search will show zillions of epidemiological studies suppprtive of vaccinations but there is nothing you can do or say that will make her change her mind.

My 4 DC are vaccinated and I never considered not getting them done. I told my DM that there was nothing she could say or show me that would dissuade me and we’ve just never discussed it since. You don’t need her permission or approval to do the right thing.

Romanov

The single vaccine (which is perfectly effective, also the double measles) did not need a new product. It was avaioabke on NHS until 1998, when the then government let the licence lapse (not medical readings, red tape ones). That was a spectacularly bad decision, given there was a scare underway (assuming your aim was to have DC immunised). One more renewal and the data which debunked Wakefield would then have been available, and fewer DC would be vulnerable to measles, and anti-vax stance generally would not have gained so much traction in the UK

Whatever he did, I don't think he can have counted on getting any form of market share for a 'new' jab, when the singles were still in manufacture and licensed for use in NHS (except mumps, which was never singly on NHS but which was available then)

I've not been vaccinated, I am on maternity leave from a job that I have to work along side children. I'd hate to have not been given the job because of a decision my mum made years ago.

Of course, you could still have chosen to have them as an adult.

It's not a personal choice thing. I'm old and immunocompromised. I've never had measles.
Antivax idiots can tell me dd after my funeral that I died from measles because they made a "personal choice " .

my mother is the same.
and on top of that she tried to treat my asthms with homeopathy as steroids apparently are the devil.
hint: homeopathy doesn't help you breathing.

smile and nod is my mantra. and not leaving dc alone with her.

@stressedmumof3 I’m pretty sure that if you went to your Drs and told them you hadn’t been vaccinated as a child they would be able to provide them now. It’s probably a good idea if you work with children as that’s where you are most likely to encounter these diseases if any of them are also unvaccinated. You also risk passing something to a child that’s too young or ill to have their vaccinations.

Of course, you could still have chosen to have them as an adult.
Not always. My DH was fine with his vaccines as a child, but he was allergic to egg so he didn't get the measles one.
It turns out that he could have had it as the vaccine is "bred" in embryo, not egg, as he is not allergic to chicken (the vaccine expert from hospital explained better!)

However, as an adult he developed an overactive immune system and other bits I won't detail. As a consequence he can't have more vaccines.

So it feels me with 0 f€*~^ joy that his SIL has not vaccinated her kids and they come and visit when they actually live in one of the 2 places with known measles outbreaks.
They also visited us and new baby without telling me they were not vaccinated but that is another story

“Can anyone point me towards independent, scientific research that I can quote from and shove under her face to explain that vaccinations DONT cause autism etc? I'd be so grateful!”
But that is why falsifiability is key to science and why we don't have to prove that vaccines don't cause autism.
That is not how science works.
For a hypothesis to be scientific, you must be able to prove it wrong.
The all swans are white example.
You find a black swan, actually more than one, and that is proven wrong.

Vaccines don't cause autism. Now it is up to the non-vaxers to provide evidence that they do. They have not. Therefore the scientific premise of "vaccines don't cause autism" stands.

Simply put "statements and theories that are not falsifiable are unscientific. Declaring an unfalsifiable theory to be scientific would then be pseudoscience.["

The statement "vaccines cause autism" is unfalsifiable and therefore unscientific.

I thing refutability is another word for it, English is my second language.

Planespotting, see that annoyed me about my SIL/BIL too: her kids haven’t had their MMR vax (she believes it causes autism), but she never said anything until her son caught mumps when my two were about 4-6 years old.

I was shocked at how normal my SIL and MIL made it sound. I expressed concern about how he had mumps (and was right there with all his cousins!!) and said something along the lines of “god I thought the vax meant they couldn’t catch it!” And they just said “oh, MMR causes autism so the kids aren’t vaccinated”.

Well thanks a fucking lot for having them near my kids whilst raging with mumps. Good job mine are old enough to be vaccinated. Good job I’m vaccinated.

@Shallishanti123 I just don't understand how she thinks. Mind you, she let her DC go to school with chicken pox...
My MIL is appalled by the non vaccinating because so many children in her generation died of preventable diseases and her best friend is having chemo for a long time now

Can anyone point me towards independent, scientific research that I can quote from and shove under her face to explain that vaccinations DONT cause autism etc? I'd be so grateful!

The linking posted on page one has a link to a study that collated several other studies.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X14006367?np=y

MyBreadIsEggy Autism is a huge spectrum my son is severely autistic he will never live independently he's non verbal I do not believe vaccines caused it and he is fully vaccinated however it is a little simplistic to say you would rather have a child who is autisticf than blind or dear autism can be very disabling

I wouldn't want to put my children at risk. We live in rural South America, dengue and black fever, yellow fever, Chagas etc are all very real threats. When the yellow fever vaccine became available everyone flocked to the health centers. It angers me when anti-vaccers come with their first-world bubble drivel. Let them live for 5 minutes in the shoes of people for whom diseases are a real threat to their children's lives. They wouldn't be so privileged and self-rightous then. It's easy to forget what our grandparents and great-grandparents went through as it's no longer in your back yard. But I wouldn't wish that on anyone, although if anti-vaccers gain anymore ground it may sadly again become a reality.

I have to admit it scares me, there was the first reported case of Polio in America last year.