People who don't vaccinate..,

[boraboring]

I've just had a discussion with someone who has chosen not to vaccinate their child.

They believed that their child would get autism, and said 'well, if your child is vaccinated then why do you have to worry about whether my child is vaccinated or not?'

I've not been on mn long so sorry if this is something that's discussed a lot.

AIBU to think it's scary that people don't vaccinate for these reasons? (I thought he autism thing was a myth anyway and proven to be?)

I read that anti vaxxers are in the top 10 major global health risks in 2019.

I just don't get it. It's compulsory in France now isn't it?

I wish it was here. My son is 3 months old and immunocompromised and I am scared he will end up catching something awful.

I gave absolutely no respect or patience for anyone who insinuates that my children would be better off dead.

*have

My friend chose not to vaccinate her children. They seem to be fine.

What does this prove?

tiggerkid
My friend chose not to vaccinate her children. They seem to be fine.

They're fine for now. They'll bed fine until they come into contact with measles, mumps, rubella, the flu, whooping cough etc etc.

What will their parents do if/when they do? What would they tell their children when they're incredibly ill with an entirely preventable disease that could have lifelong complications?

Unfortunately healthcare budget has shrunk so much over the years that now health visitors can only do the basic and not even that.
Years ago they had manageable case loads which allowed them to visit families , run small groups etc.
Parents used to get info and advice from them.
Now the parents get advice from friends and Dr Google. They no longer get sound advice and support from a health professional.
I believe this has had a huge impact on parents making decisions.
The knock on effect is huge.

Ok, I can see why my post may be seen as crass.
But what I’m getting at is if you’re child is autistic then that’s that. They were born with autism right? They weren’t injected with autism because of some big government conspiracy disguised as vaccination. Whereas if you child was born with no additional needs or physical disabilities whatsoever, then they catch measles and go blind as a consequence of that all because you chose not to vaccinate them against measles, then that is a horrendous thing for a previously healthy child to have to live with. I’m pretty sure if I were in that situation, and lost my perfectly good sight because my parents didn’t vaccinate me, I’d have serious problems ever remotely respecting my parents ever again.
I’m not trying to play Top Trumps with disabilities, all I’m saying is that measles-related blindness is preventable by vaccinating your child against measles. From what I gather from reading different autism theories - autism is not preventable.

@MyBreadIsEggy I understood what you meant. I'm not pedantic enough to argue it. I agree with your last post.

From what I gather from reading different autism theories - autism is not preventable.

Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder, no one is quite certain exactly what causes it but the leading theory is that genetic predisposition is likely. Some of the things that do NOT cause autism are vaccines, gluten, too much screen time, lack of discipline, processed foods, and sugar.

There's a woman on a FB group I'm on complaining about her DD's school trying to persuade her to have the HPV vaccine.

In their culture, women never have multiple sexual partners, so her DD is not at risk apparently.

I have three kids...... All vaccinated fully... Eldest two are not autistic and youngest one is.... My husband is and my mother in law is so clearly its genetic as my husband is the father of the youngest and my other two with my first husband....... Vaccinations do not cause autism.

I think it's their choice to make.

But their children should not be able to attend playgroups, nurseries and schools as a consequence of their choice.

Sorry if I come across ignorant as I'm not.
I'm 100% pro Vax. My children are and always have been up to date with all vaccines.

Can someone explain why it's dangerous for a non vaccinated child to be around a vaccinated? I thought having vaccinations would protect them? Obvisouly the non vax child could get something nasty but wouldn't the vaccinated child be protected?
I do know it's bad for people who can't be vaccinated for certain reasons and also for babies who have not yet had them.

Birdshit

Not a doctor so this isn’t my area of expertise but a few things come to mind as to why:-

1. Babies who have not yet had their immunisations are vulnerable.
2. A small proportion of people cannot be immunised. (Eg due to anaphylaxis to something in the vaccine. I think eggs can be a problem.)
3. Immunity is a funny thing and vaccines don’t always work. (Different to vaccinations but dd’s Rainbows leader has had chicken pox more than 20 times. For whatever reason her immune system can’t remember it / deal with it. Presumably the vaccine also wouldn’t work.)
4. Immunity doesn’t always last a lifetime. Various things can interfere such as cancer treatment, some illnesses and pregnancy. To give the example of me.... I had Rubella at the age of 8. At the age of 11 I was vaccinated. At the age of 29 I decided to ttc and had a rubella immunity test. I was immune. At 30 and pregnant I was tested again. Still immune. Age 32 I wanted to ttc again. Another test - still immune. Age 33 and pregnant got tested again. Not immune. Not immune to rubella and I was pregnant! Fuck! And I had had rubella! And absolutely nothing that could be done but hope like hell I didn’t catch rubella during my pregnancy.

birdshit - One factor is herd immunity - even if vaccine immunity is not 100%, herd immunity should prevent unvaccinated people coming into contact with the disease. However if lots of people stop vaccinating:

1. it becomes more likely that you come into contact with a disease and perhaps despite being vaccinated are unlucky/vaccine is not 100% protective and contract the full blown disease

2. diseases begin circulating again amongst the unvaccinated and mutate, rendering vaccines ineffective

Thank you mum of two and blackberry. Very good points. Some stuff I didn't know about like vaccines not lasting!
Mum of two that's scary! Glad u were okay.
And BlackBerry I.didnt even think about here immunity.

The herd immunity thing is why there are outbreaks in America now. Too many over there still believe the autism thing and don't vaccinate, so now they are spreading measles like crazy. I wonder how many will get vaccinated after watching their children suffer.

The arguments on both sides of this thread are utterly crass.

And please don’t compare the HPV vaccine to the MMR (the former seeming problematic for a small minority)

The issue for many non-vaxxers is the lack of data they trust on vaccinations generally. The lack of data when a vaccination is produced. The shoddy data on HPV, for example, taints people’s views generally on vaccinations and induces an overall lack of trust

I worry about there being outbreaks of measles/mumps etc in this country as antivaxxers seem to have strongholds in certain places, like Brighton. We know older people who were left infertile after contracting mumps as children, it's not something I would want to inflict on my child. DD was given her vaccines along the NHS schedule, and I got an earful off our (antivaxx) friend's mother about how I was risking 'disabling' dd with autism.

Having said that, I was the in first year where the HPV vaccine was offered in schools and I refused the vaccine for myself due to the reports of girls having seizures and fitting after having it in the US. As I suffered with horrific seizures and hospital admissions as a child I had no desire to add to my risk.

Birdshitbridgegotme

Some immunocompromised people can loose the immunity previously conferred by immunisations.

I have had all immunisations, have had chicken pox and vaccinated against hep B for work. I'm now on immunosuporessants and blood tests that I have are showing that my immune system is now barely functioning.

If I am exposed to any contagious illness I have to inform my consultant so that they can decide on treatment.

The more unvaccinated people there are the higher the circulation of these diseases.

Obviously babies are at risk until they can be vaccinated too so any unvaccinated child in contact with a young baby is an infection risk.

The arguments on both sides of this thread are utterly crass.

Some arguments should not have 'both sides'. This is child protection. We don't write child protection policies for schools than ask a paedophile's views.

This is the same. Vaccines work. Parents who chose (I know not all children can be vaccinated) not to vaccinate put their own children and other people at risk.

So many anti vaxxers I know don't vaccinate because "big pharma" are evil...trying to give our kids autism, among other things.
However when their kids are sick they happily trot off to the doctor for anti biotics and buy Calpol and Nurofen...
Those things aren't natural products. You can't have it both ways, you either trust the medical or pharmaceutical companies or you don't.

isItruined same here.

The "Wouldn't you rather" statement is a moot point given that vaccinations do not cause autism. And as a parent of an autistic child I would rather it wasn't implied to be the lesser of two evils, so to speak.

You cannot prevent autism nor avoid it by not vaccinating. You can prevent complications of measles/mumps etc for your own child and for others by vaccinating.

I've not been vaccinated, I am on maternity leave from a job that I have to work along side children. I'd hate to have not been given the job because of a decision my mum made years ago.

isItruined I meant same here to my DD being autistic well before she had MMR. It was obvious. She's always been bang up to date on vaccination schedule.

My DM is hugely against vaccinations (she doesn't talk to her neice because her neice decided to get her own DC vaxxed)

As I've grown up with my DM constantly talking about how bad they are, I know when I come to have my own DC I will have a battle with her.

Can anyone point me towards independent, scientific research that I can quote from and shove under her face to explain that vaccinations DONT cause autism etc? I'd be so grateful!

Incidentally I am fully vaccinated. DM only discovered her strong views long after the fact.