contractors for HA's

[bluebell34567]

recently i've received a letter from the contractor of our housing association that they want to survey our boiler with intend to change it. they said that we are selected for this job because our boiler is old. -but it is still perfectly working. had never have problems with it so many years.
-to do it at this winter time is so inconvenient, it will take 3 days according to them.
-we recently had another contractor for another job at home a month ago. they keep coming and coming. sometimes another contractor literally begging to do survey on the loft.
AIBU think that these contractors are suckers to earn money out of residents and HA's acting a bit naive?
i wouldnt want this job to be done atm, do i have any right to say no (i know they are sticky, in previous years they wanted to do annual checks 3 months earlier, harrassed us and threatened on the phone to inform our HA if we dont comply and i feel vulnerable.)?
advices will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

apologies for the typos i feel a bit upset.

I would have it done, if they ask about anything else that would cost you just say no, end of.
Better to know that your boiler is going to stay ok and be efficient

-it is working very well, wouldnt it be better to change it when it is broken? why change it when it is working-like why mend it if it is not broken.
-why should i accept such a hassle when i dont need it now? especially in this winter time so they can earn money.
-and how would i know they will put a good one? they may well put a cheap one and drag me years and years.

i feel so used.

Bluebell - you feel used about what exactly?

Is it a works schedule or are you the only ones needing a boiler?

I might be wrong but my understanding would be it would be saving the ha in the long run having more efficient newer boilers installed in their properties so they will be paying less for the upkeep & repairs of the older boilers. Also if it's more efficient won't it save you on energy bills? I know winter isn't the most convenient time but I wouldn't say no to it

Housing Associations have tight budgets and carefully considered long term strategic asset management plans: they won’t be opting to replace your boiler in a whim or because they’ve been tricked by a wily contractor, your home will have been included in a tranche of their properties which their stock condition survey had earmarked for boiler replacement this year.

It is best practice to replace an older boiler before it reaches the stage where it becomes unreliable or breaks down. A boiler breaking down is a service failure, in asset management terms. If, this time next year, the boiler breaks down leaving you without heating and hot water and the HA’s repair contractor is unable to provide an appointment for several days or has to order a specialist part because your boiler is older which takes some one to arrive - I’m sure you’d be complaining that this was unacceptable.

You’re within your rights to decline a new boiler, but do bear the above in mind and resolve to suck it up if you’re inconvenienced in the future.

I live in a HA property and I wouldn’t be agreeing to a replacement of a boiler that would take three days in bloody Jan.

Contractors do use Ha’s and council properties as money making schemes to do un-needed work.

I had my windows replaced for worse windows that let a cold draft in because they’re the cheap replace every 5-10 year type whereas the original windows were made to last with nothing wrong with them.

Check your TA but you should be able to decline major replacement schemes unless for example the boiler is condemned on a service.

You can’t decline checks the HA have to complete by law, things like gas and electric. You have to give them access for this (iirc the one I used to work at would begin solicitor/court involvement once access was declined for gas safety checks 3 times. Not sure if that’s standard practice)

What @ComtesseDeSpair said, there's a big picture rather than just you not wanting an inconvenience. You'd be far more annoyed if you have a breakdown and it takes more than 3 days to repair.

If the contractors are being aggressive or inappropriate in any way then do contact your HA directly, they should have agreed service standards and can take it up directly with the contractor.

I can kind of see your point about the contractors, I'm having similar issues with roof replacement, when I moved in they told me that the roof was due for renewal - fine - they'd be sending people to survey - fine - but I was getting no notice until they literally arrived at the door. Demanding entry and to look in the loft etc. Had 3 different people do exactly the same thing in the same week. The problem is that I work nights and they woke me up each time, were snippy and dismissive when I said it wasn't a suitable time and threatened they'd have to 'report' me for not cooperating when for two different inspections I wasn't in - why would I be when I didn't even know?!
Also with regards to the gas safety inspection, I got a letter, on the day of the inspection, telling me the date and time, only realised this after I'd come home to a 'This property is unsafe' sticker on my front door and a generic letter shoved through the door threatening legal action to gain entry! The appointment letter date was dated two days before the appointment - I was lucky it arrived when it did really!
I know these things need doing but just because I live in a HA property, doesn't mean I'm psychic or should be threatened and intimidated for daring to work/sleep after I've been working/go out when I don't even know they're coming!
I have since spoken to the HA and explained all this, they were great and rearranged my gas check so I actually knew when it would be and ensure I get some notice now for other appointments where they need me in!

I would however, get your boiler changed, yes it'll be inconvenient but less inconvenient than if it breaks down and you need to wait for an engineer/parts. But definitely speak to the HA about contractors.

yeah i had a similar situation about annual gas check Biggerknickersagain. it was funny as the date of the letter was further than the appoinment time. and yes they do act very aggresively as leaving threatening notes, letters etc. i think we are easy targets for them.
i very much thank you Foslady, TheQueef, Dyingforchocolate, ComtesseDeSpair, Hwory , boringlyboring, codenameduchess and Biggerknickersagain for your advices. i will take all on board what you saying.
i didnt know that when the boiler breaks down it would take longer to replace it.

As someone who works for a HA - take the replacement.
If it breaks down it will take much longer to get a replacement if they can't fix it.
As a pp said- they have cyclical replacement programs in place in regards to budget and need as it doesn't make sense to just wait for each one to break down.

thank you betterbeslytherin. how can i make sure they put a new good boiler on, i wouldnt want a cheap, problematic one really, no one does.

For Christ's sake why on earth would a HA put in a cheap problematic boiler!? They're the ones that pay to maintain them! I worked for a main contractor who worked on HA properties, including doing things like replacing boilers BTW the HA specifies the boiler type NOT the contractor. The HA I worked for specified one of the most expensive boilers on the market because of its reputation and long warranty.

It was some of the most frustrating work I've ever done. I 've been refused access (despite notice being given). I've had to survey messy houses, filthy houses I've had tenants lie about things being broken. It got to the point where the HA had to pay to electrically test all the tenants appliances prior to any work being carried out because we had so many bogus claims for broken TVs etc. I've been in properties where pure wool carpets had been down for less than a month but the tenants had allowed their dogs to regularly defecate inside. I had an eighty year old woman ask to use the skip provided to dispose of some furniture, then say the plumber had thrown it in there without her permission! She had to be refunded for furniture she wanted rid of! Who pays for all this? People like me. People the the contractors you so obviously look down on and assume to be dishonest. People like the HA staff who work to ensure you have a decent property. Not only that but their taxes pay for HA subsidised accommodation.

The sub contractors I worked with during my time doing HA refurb were undoubtedly the best I worked with during my construction career. Hard working, trustworthy and endlessly patient. Perhaps you should treat them with some respect, their job is hard.

I suggest you let them get on with the free work you are getting done, (most of us actually have to pay for a new boiler) which will benefit you as your energy bills will probably be lower.

Also read and digest ComtessaDepair's post, which so ably explains why this work is being done.

@bluebell34567
What above poster said- it's their property- it is in their interests to fit a good boiler. They are the ones that pay for its maintenance and repairs- it would make no sense to put a crappy one in.
Hence them wanting to replace it in the first place.

Is this a wind up or are you just an ingrate?

Free work ? Ingrate?

THIS DOCUMENT. Myatts Field North refurb.

www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/fileadmin/documents/research/pfisocialhousing/MFN_PFI_Refurb_Experiences_Report.pdf
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Fri 14-Jul-17 22:10:33

Residents were told to remove their pets, but no compensation was offered to cover the
costs involved.
 No consideration was given to residents who worked night shifts.
 Workers used electricity paid for by of residents, without offering compensation.
 Doors were left open and residents were able to wander in unchallenged by workers
who did not know them.
 Quality alterations that residents had already made to their homes were ripped out to
make way for inferior alternatives.
 Supposedly completed electrical rewiring was found to be substandard and occasionally
dangerous.
 Supposedly completed pipe works and its housing were found to be substandard.
 In some homes, odd sized radiators and kitchen unit doors had been fitted.
 Flooding in one home had been caused by an unsupervised apprentice.
 Households were left overnight without running water or a toilet.
 At least one resident was left without electricity for a whole weekend.
 Some workers were found to be abusive, bullying and inconsiderate, especially towards
elderly or otherwise vulnerable residents
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Thu 20-Sep-18 14:31:48

"Hodkinson carried out a qualitative survey of 14 homes refurbished by Rydon that had been the subject of a huge number of complaints. Showers were fitted next to electric fans. A toilet was installed so close to a wall that you could only sit on it sideways. Some households went for days without electricity and weeks without cooking facilities. Cupboards were fitted with wrongly size doors. Tenants who complained reported that they were treated dismissively. One remembered the site supervisor saying to him, “It ain’t Chelsea, mate.” Regenter’s out-of-hours emergency line linked to the wrong database, so callout engineers weren’t available. The striking thing was how long problems could drag out: one family’s flat was flooded in January 2014, and repairs weren’t even scheduled till September. Two years later, their flat still hadn’t been fully repaired and redecorated. Even at the most straightforward level, the work wasn’t done to a decent standard.

When approached for comment, Rydon said that since the complaints were made, three years ago, attempts have been made to remedy the problems. They said the comments were not reflective of most of the residents, and that there was a good level of satisfaction among the residents now.

For tenants with more complicated requirements, the situation was worse. The Cifuentes family, one of whom used a wheelchair, was left without ramps, hoists or any means of escape in a fire, and without a lock on the front door. Repairs were so slow and haphazard that, at one point, the family had to move out for over a month, and the disabled member could only have his needs met by going into a respite unit – whereupon they were threatened with losing their carer’s allowance, their disability allowance and their car."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2595702-To-wonder-how-this-company-is-still-in-business?pg=1

MIL stays in a HA property. She has had two new fitted kitchens in the last maybe eight years, and the newest one (three years old) could do with replacing already. Why? Because they are cheap crappy kitchens and badly installed too.
She had cabinet doors fall off within a month of installation, a leak under the kitchen sink which ruined her floor (that she had paid for), her cooker was reinstalled in an unsafe manner etc. Her current sink doesn't fit properly and water drips through the gap into the cupboard underneath.
Similar story with her windows - shitey drafty things. Boiler - breaks down a few times a year. Bath - doesn't fit properly and leaks into her downstairs hall. Beetles - appear every summer in every room and "can't be helped as the whole building is full of them."
All of these issues have been reported and "fixed" repeatedly.
And the worst thing? We subsidise this whole charade. I can only assume the HA get grants or separate funding for repairs and improvements.

I assume that HA tenants pay rent, so the maintenance work is hardly free.

I wouldn't choose to have my boiler replaced in winter-unless it had broken down- so why should anyone have this inconvenience foisted upon them.

OP: is it worth asking if you can be put up in a hotel while this work takes place?

It’s unusual for boiler replacements to be carried out at this time of year - and re-reading the OP I’ve noted that she hasn’t actually been told that her boiler is to be replaced in mid winter - only that they want to carry out a survey of it in the next couple of weeks. If they’re surveying now then it’s unlikely any actual works will go ahead until the spring.

And no - there are no government grants for HAs for repairs and maintenance. Maintenance and asset management is funded entirely out of rental income. For anybody who isn’t familiar with the ins and outs of the social housing sector, the government decided several years ago that HAs must cut their rents by 5% over a five year period - ignoring the fact, of course, that the cost of employing maintenance contractors and buying materials wasn’t also going to reduce by 5% in the same period. HAs therefore have difficult decisions to make about asset management priorities.

I’ve never understood this overwhelming vitriol towards HAs. HAs are landlords. Non-profit, socially-minded landlords generally staffed by people who went into the sector because they care at some level about social inclusion and the right to decent housing, who let homes at below market rents - but landlords nonetheless. Sure, mistakes get made, but the idea that it’s an industry of scheming people out to ruin the lives of the poor is ludicrous.

@Graphista