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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

contractors for HA's

52 replies

bluebell34567 · 26/01/2019 11:26

recently i've received a letter from the contractor of our housing association that they want to survey our boiler with intend to change it. they said that we are selected for this job because our boiler is old. -but it is still perfectly working. had never have problems with it so many years.
-to do it at this winter time is so inconvenient, it will take 3 days according to them.
-we recently had another contractor for another job at home a month ago. they keep coming and coming. sometimes another contractor literally begging to do survey on the loft.
AIBU think that these contractors are suckers to earn money out of residents and HA's acting a bit naive?
i wouldnt want this job to be done atm, do i have any right to say no (i know they are sticky, in previous years they wanted to do annual checks 3 months earlier, harrassed us and threatened on the phone to inform our HA if we dont comply and i feel vulnerable.)?
advices will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

OP posts:
Biggerknickersagain · 27/01/2019 12:15

I wondered how long it would be before we got the comments about free work and people being an 'ingrate'.
While I do think the OP should agree to get boiler being changed, possibly negotiate for the spring/summer to reduce the knock on effect, it's no more free work than if in a private rent, because you pay rent in a HA property, the same as you pay rent privately.
That rent may be lower than a private rent, but HAs are for that very reason, they also provide security that private rent doesn't. I pay my rent from my wages, as I always have, In this HA or private rent, others I know have the majority if not all paid by HB - in private rent - but apparently that's ok because it's also benefitting a private LL?! Yet someone paying their own rent, but in a HA property has a free house and free work? And is an ingrate?
I pay nigh on the going rate for any rental property because private LLs have had to drop rents or have empty properties as no one can afford it. We've had our industry decimated round here over the last few years, lots of well employed now on zero hours contracts, while we try and squeeze in the latest 250 made redundant last year into a declining employment area.
And by saying that in a house you own you'd have to pay for it yourself, well yes you would. However the massive thing people always forget is that if I get my boiler replaced, it doesn't belong to me, nor does the house. If you own your own house, well you own the place don't you? You have an asset at the end of it and renters don't, it's hardly a good comparison, well unless you want to have a pop I suppose.
I also, as do many others, work ft, earn and pay tax - so I'm subsidising it too, with my tax - if indeed that's what happens, because as already said, I pay rent. Along with everything else that is subsidised by taxes.
All that is conveniently forgotten though when someone isn't happy with the service they're paying for from their LL contractors and that LL happens to be a HA. It seems we just need to put up with it, despite the fact we're actually paying for it.

HelenaDove · 27/01/2019 16:43

Its funny how the some of the ones who work for or with HAs are absent from the other threads like the one that talks about stigma in social housing Yet the minute someone points out concerns about work being done and how its going to be done (a perfectly legitimate concern after the way contractors treated the Grenfell residents which is well documented, not to mention other examples that have been posted on here in the past) yet point out any concern that something might go wrong and up they pop.

Its not hard to work out why though. Its because a lot of the stigma and attitudes towards tenants is coming from within the
housing sector itself. Comments like "free work" prove this point.

x2boys · 27/01/2019 17:20

out of interest why would fitting a new boiler take three days? I had a new boiler fitted two years ago and my radiators upgraded in my housing association house and they arrived at about 8.30 and had finished by 1 .Asp it's not free as we pay rent and contrary to popular belief in some parts of the country private rent and social rent are comparable .

HelenaDove · 27/01/2019 17:35

@x2boys Liberty Gas took four months and 18 appointments back in 2015 to put in a tenants boiler and six radiators.

HelenaDove · 27/01/2019 17:37

i wish could say it was a one off but my linked thread on the previous page shows otherwise.

Robert Heath Heating who do work for Clarion Housing amongst others arent any better.

bluebell34567 · 27/01/2019 21:31

thank you very much for your advices HelenaDove, Nicketynac, aconcertpianist, ComtesseDeSpair, Biggerknickersagain, x2boys and betterbeslytherin.
i've learned a lot on this thread and i will try to apply them to my situation.
yes, the replacement will take 3 days, because there will be temporary wiring, actual wiring and then the tidy up process, all different days and i am not sure if they will be consecutive days.
thanks again, i am really grateful for the advices.

OP posts:
Lizziespring · 28/01/2019 09:31

Wow, did you get to talk on person to tenants in the same tone of irritable contempt? I've rented from housing associations since 1987, when I moved from the housing co-op I'd help set up so that I could continue to foster children after having my birth son. As I enjoy interior design and browsing retro shops, my flat is nicely decorated and well furnished, as are those of my friends and neighbours. Rainwater pouring in each winter to my upstairs neighbour's flat, because the housing association failed to keep the roof gutters cleared and the door handles and cupboard doors falling off from the low standard work done before I moved in, did used to annoy me. But having finally persuaded them to clear the gutters annually and having taken responsibility for keeping my home in good repair myself for years, it all now looks fine. As for the previous poster suggesting this tenant "suck it up," would it not be more helpful to suggest her landlord could delay removing her heating and hot water until the warmer months? Paying rent rather than a mortgage does not mean tenants are somehow lesser and deserve disrespect.

Saladd0dger · 28/01/2019 10:10

I’d take the new boiler op. 3 days is nothing to the 7 weeks I was left with no working boiler and a newborn whilst the housing were digging there heals in as the didn’t want to stump up the cost for a new one

Surfingtheweb · 28/01/2019 10:14

If you don't let them change the boiler now & it breaks further down the line you will be responsible for getting it fixed / replaced because you declined the scheduled works.
The reason you now have tons of requests is due to the governments "better homes initiative" they are ensuring everyone has a safe home. The loft thing you should do ASAP, they want to put loads on insulation in there for you which will reduce your energy consumption & make your house warmer in winter & cooler in the summer. It's all worth doing.

He11y · 28/01/2019 10:43

We have a HA property and they say our kitchen is due to be replaced - it’s 16 years old and only basic but we’ve looked after it and it’s fine, so I’ve said no thank you to a new one. The contractors who put it in back then were a pain (we had to have them back a few times to sort issues) and we just don’t want the hassle again.

Like others, we’ve also had issues with workmen turning up at the door and I always turn them away if they don’t have an appt, as they need to understand they own the property but they don’t own us. We’ve recently had a gas contractor tell the HA we missed a service when they actually cancelled it so I made sure that was put right and they’ve not tried it again. You do have to be assertive with them in my experience.

However, all that said, I wouldn’t say no to a new boiler as there’s a risk you could be without heating and/or hot water if they can no longer easily fix the one you have.

HelenaDove · 09/02/2019 17:52

HA coming to do yet another asset survey even though the last one was only last May.

BentNeckLady · 09/02/2019 18:10

You should have a right to refuse so it’s up to you if you want to do that but it’s probably best to get it done. I work for a HA and we’re happy to accept refusals but do warn people that if it breaks down then they might be waiting longer to get it replaced which is inconvient ( and we all know these things happen at Christmas!)

Helena, have you ever considered that the reason is housing workers don’t post on your threads is because you’re like a bloody dog with a bone when it comes to housing associations. Perhaps if you didn’t speak about us all as if we’re the scum of the earth we might be more willing to participate in conversations about the good work we do, the real difference we make to peoples lives, the money advice, the support in to work, the supporting old people with no families, the neighbourhood schemes, the raising money for charity, the customer events etc etc etc

Just because some housing associations are undoubtably shit doesn’t mean we all are, thank you very much.

BentNeckLady · 09/02/2019 18:11

Oh and I’d be surprised if it took 3 day. It’ll likely be done and dusted in a day unless you’ve got any asbestos you need removing or anything.

HelenaDove · 09/02/2019 18:16

Perhaps there should be a campaign to raise awareness of the stigma against housing workers and how its assumed they are all druggies or troublemakers.

HelenaDove · 09/02/2019 18:16

@Lizziespring

thoroclock · 09/02/2019 18:26

ToPlanZ - I used to work for a sub contractor carrying out M&E refurb contracts for LA's and HA's and you are spot on. No expense was spared with the specifications and the sense of entitlement from many of the tenants was unbelievable.

Op have the boiler replaced, it's all part of planned works and you'd be the first to moan if they left it until it was breaking down every few days in the middle of next winter.

HA's and LA's can't win can they, they get slated if they don't renew or repair in good time and yet they still get slated for having the temerity to try and give a good service to their tenants! Hmm

Bombardier25966 · 09/02/2019 18:29

@bluebell34567 Gas boilers have very little "wiring". Have you got your terminology wrong or is there more to this?

SnowyAlpsandPeaks · 09/02/2019 18:36

I live in a HA and have loads of contractors in- gas, electric, new boiler, windows, kitchen, bathroom you name it. I haven’t had a fault with any of them. Done the job well, all kind and polite. I’ve made them tea and coffee, and bacon butties. Two went above and beyond and got rid of loads of stuff for me and filled holes etc that were not on the list of things to do, so I bought them some beer and cider along with chocolates as a thank you.

Jamiefraserskilt · 09/02/2019 18:43

Coming up to the end if the financial year and they are looking to complete before budget runs out. They should provide supplementary heaters. I would snatch their hands off as it may help with your bills if they flush the system before installation.

DeathyMcDeathStarFace · 09/02/2019 21:12

We are in a HA house and within a few months of moving in the HA wanted to do the checks for anything that needed replaced etc. (Windows, external doors, bathroom, downstairs toilet, kitchen) why they couldn't have done it in the few weeks the house was empty I have no idea. It came back that the kitchen and boiler were due for replacement, not because of the condition they were in but because of how old they were. (It did occur to me that they didn't need to see them to know how old they are, it was on their computer system, the contractors told us that! Looking at the things on the list we were surprised they said the boiler and kitchen as they were relatively serviceable, but the double glazing is in need of being sorted, there are gaps around some of the windows where you can see out between the frame and the window that sits in the frame, they need rehung (as does the back door) or replaced.)

Anyway, new boiler and kitchen. We were told that our HA replaces boilers when they are about 12 years old, regardless of condition or how efficient they are/well they work. The chap who replaced ours said it could very easily have worked for another 6 or more years, but the HA replace them at about 11 or 12 years old, so they wanted to do it even though it worked well. Even though yours still works your HA might be wanting to replace it because they want to do it at a certain age rather than do it when it conks out.

It was worth it though, we have a more economical, more environmentally friendly, easier to use boiler and now have a thermostat which we didn't have before. It only took half a day though, so didn't matter what time of year it was done. You can agree to have a new boiler but say it needs done at a warmer time of year, don't let anyone (HA or contractor) bully you into having it done in the cold weather if it is not suitable for you.

(When we had the kitchen done it took 2 weeks - full rewiring/electrics/lighting, plastering, all new pipes, tiling, flooring, painting walls, ceiling and doors, the works. We insisted it was done during school time, not holidays, as have 4 children and wouldn't be able to feed them during the day if they were at home for lunch. They made sure the cooker was rewired every evening and we could use it for cooking the evening meals, we were told we might be without washing machine and/or water for up to a week, but they would keep that to a minimum. I think we were without the washing machine for the Thursday and Friday, it was plumbed in soon after the pipes were replaced. The new sink couldn't be plumbed in until the cupboard and worktop were installed so were without that before we lost the washing machine but also had it back by the Friday and just had to take the dishes to wash in the bath as they didn't fit in the downstairs toilet sink. The contractors knew what we needed and tried their hardest to keep us cooking and washing while still replacing the kitchen. They couldn't promise to have things done by a certain day as if something went wrong it might take longer to get things done, but they did give us a rough time when we would have water, use of the kitchen etc and tried to stick to it.)

You can ask what boiler they plan on putting in so you can look it up online to see what it is like, but I would recommend you have it done, it should be better than the old one. Ours is noticeably better. Ask if you will be without heating for the time it will take to install, if so ask what they are going to provide you with (temporary heaters/oil filled radiators etc) to use as heating in the meantime. Get them to talk you through what will happen and what they will do to keep you warm.

As an aside, our HA services the boiler every 11 months. With our new boiler we thought it would be done 11 months after installation. No, the old one was due to be done a couple of weeks after being replaced so the new one was scheduled for the same time! We had it done, then within about 4 months they wanted to do it again. We said "no, it's been replaced then serviced recently." (I felt like the HA were constantly trying to demand access to our home, they'd been in a number of times in the 18 months we'd been here) HA threatened going to court for access and we will be required to pay costs etc. We said "ok, the courts will look at the dates and agree we are not legally required to have it done so soon." HA got the representative who dealt with our area involved, we told him it had been replaced and serviced recently and he agreed we didn't need to let them have access so soon and courts would agree with us. He did come back with (a possible story) that the HA were streamlining their system and wanting to have all the boilers in houses they own on our estate serviced at the same time so wanted to do it then, which is understandable. We eventually agreed, but made it clear we were sick of the HA wanting access to our home so they are only getting access in future for boiler servicing/gas check, emergencies and repairs we agree on.

HelenaDove · 10/02/2019 15:31

@DeathyMcDeathStarFace

We have had FOUR letters since New Year wanting access for some reason or another and its only early February.

To discuss changes to the flat doors for fire safety

Access so they can do a gas safety check (we are electric but still have to have it done)

The company doing the doors wanted access to tenants flats in the WEEK commencing 7th Jan. They wouldnt even narrow it down to a day let alone a time.

They also wrote to us last August saying they MAY knock on our doors to do a check on a certain day. MAY is even written in bold in the letter so wasnt even for certain.

Yet moaned when they couldnt get access to some of the flats.

Deathy i understand what yours are trying to do but they wont be able to get access to flats all at even roughly the same time. Because many people work shifts. A lot of tenants who are working are in precarious low status jobs and fear taking time off especially if its zero hours which lots of them are There has been an erosion of workers rights and SH tenants dont have a lot of rights either so are often caught between a rock and a hard place.

We had a paramedic on our estate who gave up his tenancy and moved in with a relative because the HA were so inflexible with when they wanted to do things and he just couldnt keep taking time off.

I know some HAs can be flexible but ours is 8am to 6pm Monday to Friday for access checks visits etc and refuse to budge from that.

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