To be incredulous that somebody who was only famous for punching people for a living could be voted as The Greatest Person of the 20th Century?

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

I know that opinions will differ massively and that this is only a subjective choice (BBC Icons) - also that they specifically decided on different categories and then looked for four people in that field for each one.

Personally, popular though sport and entertainment are, I don't see how being a singer, actor, artist, writer or any kind of sports person could ever earn you such an accolade.

So far, there's been a scientist who discovered a revolutionary treatment for malaria and has impacted millions of people's lives for the better (rejected), a campaigner for women's suffrage and a brave man whose actions led to the end of vile, appalling racial inequality in the USA (at least one of whom will be rejected), the 'Father of Computing' and Enigma codebreaker (a worthy category winner, IMHO), and somebody who sang pop/glam rock songs (albeit ones that many people have greatly enjoyed). Also, coming soon, a man who painted pictures of soup cans.

Of apparently far less importance and influence were Tim Berners-Lee (inventor of the World Wide Web), Anne Diamond (instrumental in saving thousands of babies from cot death) and Trevor Baylis (inventor of the wind-up radio, which has revolutionised communication and educational opportunities in large parts of rural Africa). I realise these people are still alive, but so are some of those who did make the cut. Then again, these three have all completely failed in the 'punching people for a living' stakes.

I suppose we just need to be thankful that Richard Branson and Kanye West didn't make the list.

AIBU or am I just a Philistine? Who else should have been on the shortlist who wasn't included?

Not just boxing: nypost.com/2015/11/29/the-tale-of-muhammad-alis-goodwill-trip-to-iraq-that-freed-us-hostages/

That Kenneth Branagh Shackleton programme is amazing. There's also a great book about it called Mrs Chippy's Last Expedition. The chippy was the ship's carpenter and was pivotal in their survival, basically. Fascinating stuff.

Ali? He was amazing. YABVU. Do you even know much about him, what he did on top of boxing? Did you do any research at all?! I met Ali, i had the pleasure of it in my line of work, he was an absolute gent, and such an icon. A worthy winner imo.

He had more integrity in his little finger than you will probably ever attain. You appear to have no clue about who he was.

It depends how you define integrity, I suppose. I really hate violence and fail to understand how people could choose it as a career, but, of course, you're free to disagree. Have you read the thread and seen my subsequent comments?

I don't remember where I called myself great or questioned why I was missing from the list.

Do you disagree with the principle of free discussion about which beliefs and actions people admire and despise in influential famous people who are widely revered as icons?

Churchill was also in the running in this poll and, to many people, he was the greatest statesman ever who led this nation brilliantly through war. Does that mean that I'm not allowed to criticise his horrendous racism and the fact that he actively spoke out in opposition to women having the vote?

I gave up on the programme when they didn’t include Elvis in the entertainment episode.

That's a ringing endorsement in my book 😁

If we're on about Mohammed Ali you're being more than unreasonable. You being ridiculous. The man was a legend. Read a bit about him... he was truly incredible.

He overcame so much, had such self belief, he was a brilliant raconteur and a gorgeous all round person. He made the best of his life with limited prospects. What's not to love about him? Also one of the most quoted sportsmen ever.

Imo Ali is the greatest not because of his boxing skills, good looks or eloquence. What made him great was his courage to speak the truth and stand up for what he believed in (no matter the cost).

Yabu and a tad ignorant.

I really like boxing

Makes my ovaries twitch watching all that masculinity unleashed

It doesn't sound like opinions "differ massively" on this, most of us just think you're wrong and narrow minded.

How can any one person be named the “greatest”?? So strange

How many politicians and CEOs, or athletes and celebrities, would give up their star on the Hollywood walk of fame or a smidgen of their salaries to defend their values?

So your judgement is entirely clouded by the fact you don't like boxing?

It depends what you mean by clouded, I suppose. I don't deny that he also did a lot of good following the prominence which he enjoyed as a result of the boxing. I'd admire him much more if, having become a greatly respected figure for his activism, he'd then left the boxing behind in order to concentrate his whole public life on more peaceful and humanitarian purposes.

For his whole career, he was first and foremost a boxer - it was because of boxing that he called himself 'The Greatest'. You're correct that I don't like boxing. It's a legal and widely-accepted occupation, but I maintain that it glorifies and glamorises violence. Many people disagree with me on this, which is fine.

As I just pointed out, Churchill was a vile racist, who made many decisions on the basis of that which severely impacted on millions of non-white people; he also actively opposed votes for women. I'm not aware that he ever later apologised for or changed these beliefs. For this reason alone (and there are a number of others), I personally would not choose to give my vote to him in any poll of greatest person of the century (FWIW), however much good he might also have done. of course, everybody else is free to disagree with me and to give him their votes.

Whether or not you like and admire violence (legal or otherwise) - and would be thrilled to see your son or daughter become a boxer, maybe as a direct result of seeing Ali and his fellow professionals as role-models - Ali will always primarily be described and known as a boxer as well as all of the good things he did.

A boxer is somebody who makes a living from punching other people until they fall over. I myself do not choose such a person to be labelled as the greatest person of the century.

It doesn't sound like opinions "differ massively" on this, most of us just think you're wrong and narrow minded.

You're right that most PPs are in the camp of admiring his entire public career - or at least think that the time he devoted to publicly glamorising violence is completely outweighed by his good works. However, there are people who wholly or partly agree with me (including the comment directly above yours).

I knew my opinion would be unpopular. AIBU (and Talk in general) is a public forum for debate - it's not an application by the OP to be accepted wholeheartedly and homogenised into a hive-mind of society.

It's interesting to see the wide variety of opinion - which often, as in this discussion, has largely polarised. I personally prefer it when people state their opinions and give reasons as to why they believe that the OP either is or is not (or is maybe partially) BU. Some people just prefer to throw biscuits or insults (which can verge on a level of bullying) rather than discussing, which they have every right to do.

I've found this thread to be of interest to me and have appreciated the, shall we say, more considered opinions (most of which have disagreed with me).

I've given my opinions throughout, so I think I'll probably leave it there, unless anybody posts something further which I think enlarges the debate or challenges for a response.

Thanks, Folks.

The Chinese woman, Tu Youyou, is amazing, I'd never heard of her before but she discovered a cure for malaria. For years no-one knew who'd discovered it but she eventually got a Nobel prize.