To be incredulous that somebody who was only famous for punching people for a living could be voted as The Greatest Person of the 20th Century?

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

I know that opinions will differ massively and that this is only a subjective choice (BBC Icons) - also that they specifically decided on different categories and then looked for four people in that field for each one.

Personally, popular though sport and entertainment are, I don't see how being a singer, actor, artist, writer or any kind of sports person could ever earn you such an accolade.

So far, there's been a scientist who discovered a revolutionary treatment for malaria and has impacted millions of people's lives for the better (rejected), a campaigner for women's suffrage and a brave man whose actions led to the end of vile, appalling racial inequality in the USA (at least one of whom will be rejected), the 'Father of Computing' and Enigma codebreaker (a worthy category winner, IMHO), and somebody who sang pop/glam rock songs (albeit ones that many people have greatly enjoyed). Also, coming soon, a man who painted pictures of soup cans.

Of apparently far less importance and influence were Tim Berners-Lee (inventor of the World Wide Web), Anne Diamond (instrumental in saving thousands of babies from cot death) and Trevor Baylis (inventor of the wind-up radio, which has revolutionised communication and educational opportunities in large parts of rural Africa). I realise these people are still alive, but so are some of those who did make the cut. Then again, these three have all completely failed in the 'punching people for a living' stakes.

I suppose we just need to be thankful that Richard Branson and Kanye West didn't make the list.

AIBU or am I just a Philistine? Who else should have been on the shortlist who wasn't included?

Ali is in the Sports category along with Tanni Grey-Thompson, Billie Jean King and Pele.

MLK was in the Activists category, which was shown last night but I don't think the winner has been announced yet - along with Gandhi, Helen Keller and Emmeline Pankhurst.

The section on Ali has just finished. He undoubtedly did use his fame for some very admirable causes, but it largely concentrated on his boxing (maybe because he was nominated in the Sports category, though). Unless they've misrepresented him significantly, he seemed to consider himself first and foremost a boxer - at least until he retired.

His links with the Nation of Islam are also very concerning. NB: I am referring to the controversial political organisation with a number of disturbing and apparently racist views. I have no issues whatsoever with his being a Muslim.

Look, choosing one person as "the greatest person of the 20th century" is reductive and stupid, and will never please everyone. Everyone can argue about whether art is better than science, saving lives is better than civil rights, whether it is unfairly biased towards famous people from the developed West, etc, etc. Its totally arbitrary and watching a program about it and then arguing about who they chose is...basically the point.

But dismissing mohammed Ali as "just being about punching people" is kind of ignorant. (Personally, I think it would be kind of cool if the "greatest" person was a Muslim, but hey :))

I don't think I've ever read so much rubbish as I have in the OP? Why the hell would Anne Diamond even be considered for such an accolade?!

Oooooooooookayyyy....

I find the idea of a competition to find 'who out of all the icons is the most iconic' bizarre and ridiculous, does everything have to be voted for these days? - can't people just be great people in their field without having to be set beside another person in an entirely different field (or another equally admirable person in their own)?
Barrel scraping telly.

I don't think that one person can be 'the greatest icon of the 20th century', it's far too wide a category. People were great in different fields and can't be compared. I know quite a lot about Ali's life and he was influential in some areas but in the wider sense I don't see his influence outside boxing and American politics. Had he never lived would we be in a worse position? Many people on that list made wide-ranging contributions to the world without which life would have been very different.
Still, he was the pc choice.

^THIS

Agree, scraping the barrel tv

@ManicUnicorn

A quick google search will tell you about Anne Diamond. Not hard is it?

Bowchicawowow totally agree. Sport is an amazing platform for change and influence, and he used that to the nth degree. It's not "just" sport.

hilbo fantastic book. The Rumble in the Jungle documentary is also brilliant.

Look, choosing one person as "the greatest person of the 20th century" is reductive and stupid, and will never please everyone. Everyone can argue about whether art is better than science, saving lives is better than civil rights, whether it is unfairly biased towards famous people from the developed West, etc, etc. Its totally arbitrary and watching a program about it and then arguing about who they chose is...basically the point.

Very well put indeed.

The whole point of it is to discuss and give opinions, but you are right that it's entirely arbitrary and that nothing will actually be changed by it.

If it were about the greatest boxer of the 20th century, Ali would undoubtedly win. A PP called him the greatest athlete, which by no means everybody would agree with. As for the greatest person overall? We'll see how the vote goes, but even if he wins that, it's still an arbitrary choice - just one that the most people who bothered/felt strongly enough to vote happen to share.

I still maintain that his fame and the greatest focus of his life was hitting people for a living (of course, people who fully consented to it and who also did the same), although he certainly used the platform that his fame gave him for some very noble causes.

Ali is in the Sports category along with Tanni Grey-Thompson, Billie Jean King and Pele.

So by your reasoning Tanni Grey-Thompson could win it for 'being good at wheelchair racing' (and not the massive amount she does on behalf of people with disabilities)

Billie-Jean King for 'whacking a ball over a net' and not her gender equality work

Pele for 'kicking a bit of leather around a pitch' and not for his work supporting and advocating for those in poverty.

You have a lot to learn OP!

What a goady post and incredibly ignorant. Do your research before posting next time.

I was hoping Simon Cowell would win as he’s done a lot for entertainment in general.

Yes, not sure why you're sneering at Ali specifically and not at the whole sports category. Why don't we only consider science and life saving measures, as they're clearly the only things that matter in any way to anyone?

I was amazed Bob Dylan got the Nobel Prize for literature (and then couldn't be bothered to collect it).
And Obama got one for doing nothing.
I suppose these accolades are worthless beyond the $1m.

Famous for draft dodging too

Ha! Also known as being a conscientious objector.

You have a lot to learn OP!

Educate me, then. What hasn't already been covered in the previous posts - mine and others?

I accept and have acknowledged that he used the platform that his fame from boxing brought him very admirably (apart from the Nation of Islam association, IMO), but he clearly primarily dedicated his life to boxing (entirely his choice, I personally hate boxing, but I'm not saying he was wrong to make that choice).

The episode where they talked about Ernest Shackleton was really good. I had heard his name but had no idea what he and his team went through after the Endurance was destroyed by pack ice in Antarctica.
Tbh the winner isn't really important but the stories are fascinating.

What an ignorant post OP. This man took a stand at his peak, which effectively stopped his career dead at the time. He had more integrity in his little finger than you will probably ever attain. You appear to have no clue about who he was.

Ray there was an excellent Kenneth Branagh two parter about Shackleton on the BBC some years ago that told the story well.

What a goady post and incredibly ignorant. Do your research before posting next time.

It wasn't meant to be goady. How am I ignorant, having read all of the previous posts - mine and others'? AIBU is primarily a public discussion forum for the exchange of opinions - it isn't a scientific treatise.

As has already been said, it's entirely arbitrary and people can nominate whomever they like as the greatest person of the last century.

I know that boxing is legal and an accepted sport, but I personally do not like violence and don't like to see it glamorised and those who do it considered as role-models.

I also fail to see the importance of what footballers or tennis players do for the overall benefit of humankind (yes, I realise that, like Ali, many use their fame platforms for very admirable causes) - but at least the very stated purpose of their sports is not to punch somebody to the ground.

If somebody who came to fame for punching people, as well as subsequently making some brave, laudable stances and making positive differences, is your choice of winner, then that's absolutely fine.

@AornisHades
Thanks for that, I will see if I can watch it. I was really amazed by the story.

So your judgement is entirely clouded by the fact you don't like boxing?