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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's disgusting the amount of landlords who won't accept DSS?

655 replies

7hup · 22/01/2019 16:23

My friend is 36 and just been kicked out by her boyfriend because she had a mental breakdown and multiple suicide attempts .

She's just been released from hospital and has been given a B&B room as temporary accommodation.

She has to claim universal credit as she is in no fit state to work.

Council said if she can find private housing they will cover her first month's rent/deposit/fees.

No where takes housing benefit.

It's unfair.

There's no council accommodation and no private landlords will accept it.

She's 36. No children. No pets. Doesn't drink. Doesn't smoke. Is quiet and polite. Keeps to herself. Clean and tidy. She just needs a home :(

Its working people too. My Dsis has a kid and can't move out of my mums because she works only 16 hours because of her son so would receive housing benefit. So she can't move either.

Even on Spareroom. Co. UK in our area there are 674 rooms.

ONE takes DSS. And is dou le the price of similar rooms

It's so unfair :(

OP posts:
PinkGin24 · 23/01/2019 19:43

@Seline, nothing LLs are doing by excluding DSS tenants is illegal. There is no 'have to' about it.

wannabestressfree · 23/01/2019 19:45

In my experience I worked until recently and had to claim housing benefits (i had a nil assessment for council tax due to health) Due to being terminally ill I get all my rent paid through UC.

Only problem is.... they pay really sporadically
And I have already had two notice of evictions which i am finding stressful with everything else going on.

I was lucky enough to get a brand new housing association house a year ago but was in private before that and the landlord would have been less than understanding.

So I get it.

Seline · 23/01/2019 19:46

There's a difference between law and morality. It not being illegal doesn't mean it's moral.

Anyway as DSS mainly affects women and disabled, it may well be in fact, illegal.

swingofthings · 23/01/2019 19:51

What do you not get about businesses having to comply with treating members of the public fairly
What would be fair to you? All benefit claimants entitled to be considered for any property they are interested in? Then what? Entitlement over someone else not on benefit? If a LL opts for a no DSS blanket it is because they believe they can attract interest from non benefit claiming prospective tenant.

If indeed they do, and they feel they are less of a risk, then they will rent to them any way. If they end up only attracting benefits claimants, then they would be silly to advertise for no DSS as they won't get any tenants.

So what would be fair?

Bumblebee39 · 23/01/2019 19:51

@KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin

But aren't we expecting people who work to do just those things?
Should rent come straight out of our pay cheques?

KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin · 23/01/2019 19:55

Due to being terminally ill I get all my rent paid through UC.

Only problem is.... they pay really sporadically
And I have already had two notice of evictions which i am finding stressful with everything else going on.

Well again, if the HB was paid directly to the LL then he could take it up with the council directly, not with the tenant as the tenant is not the debtor. There would be little point in threatening to evict the tenant if they had no control over the payments either way. And if a tenant got evicted as a result of the council not paying their bills on time I imagine they could sue them.

Also, council accounts depts might be a bit slow to pay but at least LLs would know it's just administrative sluggishness and they are actually good for the money. That's more than can be said for many tenants who build up massive rent arrears, the LL has sod all chance of ever getting it all back up to date so feels they have no choice but serve notice.

KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin · 23/01/2019 19:56

No Bumble because they are paying their rent with their own money. HB is not the tenant's own money, or at least it should not be regarded as such. It should be regarded as the LL's money.

ivykaty44 · 23/01/2019 19:58

KIrstyA so should the same principle be applied to council tax as it is rent and every householder have council tax payments taken from their income?

WofflingOn · 23/01/2019 19:58

So, you are proposing a cosmetic change.
Landlords could be denied the right to say ‘No DSS, no children’s, dogs, smokers, vegans etc’ but in reality, they’d still shred all the applications from those they regarded as too risky. Nothing of use or substance would change, discrimination would merely be hidden.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/01/2019 19:59

I own a house with no mortgage on it. I rent it out to a single mother with a disabled son who works part time and gets some housing benefit. It's a nice house. I rent it pretty cheap, do repairs/replace white goods promptly and let her decorate as she likes.

I'm not some bleeding heart soft touch; it makes perfect business sense. The lady knows she won't get a better deal anywhere else. She's been living in my house for about 9 years, so no voids and she looks after it well because it's her home. Win win all round.

Graphista · 23/01/2019 20:00

"right. How would that happen? [banning accidental landlords] If you have to move for a job, or because relationship ends your house is confiscated?" You sell it. If that's at a reduced price thems the breaks - that would also likely lead to housing prices dropping which frankly they NEED to.

Essentialhummus - I understand the property price is much larger than the ongoing costs per cost BUT it would be a good way of easily ensuring people who ARE LANDLORDS fully understand and are prepared and organised to cover the costs of any ongoing costs - including if the insurance doesn't cover it. Cos we know how those insurance companies just LOVE to pay out no quibble! 😉

Dreamingofsun - I'm a Scot living in Scotland. Last 2 private tenancies here. Unfortunately a big problem (with tenants AND landlords is enforcement) I was savvy enough to know shelter can not only advise but also advocate - including legally - on a tenants behalf, I couldn't have afforded a lawyer. It's still took the threat of legal action in both cases before the landlords acted. In the case with the windows not even by me but the person who the window nearly landed on! (A neighbour) initially they were only going to replace the window that had fell out, even though the other windows were as bad! The neighbour threatened to sue if the others weren't replaced and fell out causing damage to their property (entirely possible with the set up).

There's not an agency that enforces laws regarding housing. Now THAT IS appalling! It's left to local authorities but they don't get any funding to do this and as someone who's lived and rented all over uk except Northern Ireland I have to say it's very hit and miss if you have a council that is good on this.

As said previously I think there should be registers of landlords and tenants with their history as these recorded - good and bad - and if they take the piss strike them off! And for landlords to register make them take a test on the rules and regs.

Create a regulatory body to oversee and enforce laws with a whistle blowers phone line!

Would solve an awful LOT of the current problems yes?

Getting rid of problem tenants would also be beneficial to other tenants too. Councils are also really shit at dealing with anti-social even illegal behaviour as Helenadove and I are all too aware! Stick em all on an estate together in basic housing in each council boundary - let em annoy fuck out each other!

"this too, you are not an 'accidental' landlord, you are someone who decided that renting the property out looked like a better option than selling it at market value, you made a deliberate choice based on your assessment of the options

there was no accident" exactly! It's a choice. At some point a choice was made.

"Housing Associations may have loans" housing associations aren't necessarily better landlords either. There's an awful lot of dodgy actions by HA's that seems to me is a hidden scandal. I'm with a HA at the moment and they seem to be ok and have a good reputation locally. The other housing association here not so much - no way of contacting them out of hours for emergency repairs, slow to do repairs, making mistakes with rent accounts to the point locally eg on FB pages people are advised to either pay the rent via bank transfer or get a clearly signed receipt at time of paying. I was with a HA ages ago (I'd forgotten until recently) they were somewhere in the middle not awful but not great either, made a lot of mistakes with my rent and poor infrastructure on their estates - basically they'd only put in suitable electrics/plumbing etc for the initial builds then added more houses but not improved the infrastructure so lots of power cuts etc.

And NOBODY is saying landlords should be providing a CHARITABLE service, they'd still be getting the same amount of rent but as many other BUSINESSES they shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against people because they are sick, disabled, female - which is the case for most benefit recipients it's indirect illegal discrimination.

Upthread someone tried to give the example of shopping etc - my money's as good to Tesco, my energy company etc as anyone else's they're not allowed to refuse me service based on where my money comes from - can you imagine?! This is exactly the same.

"They don't make assumptions on whether you might pay the rent or not or trash the place, they just say yes to the people who statistically are less likely to cause them trouble." I rather suspect that was the argument or very close to that which was used by landlords who had the "no blacks, no Irish no dogs" signs!

And it bloody well is personal when you ARE making assumptions on what a tenants like without even talking to them - hell without even credit check and references!

"govts have made landlording much too attractive and easy" yep! But is it any wonder when so many MPs have a vested interest in this?

"Universal Credits have buggered it up for landlords who have taken on tenants who have DSS" this attitude from landlords, letting agencies etc LONG predates UC
hence why many still use "no DSS" that's how far back it goes - at least! That depts been defunct for 18 years!

How many of you that are landlords that are aware of the issues with benefits being stopped arbitrarily or not paid in full have actually campaigned or even just written to your MP to say this is unacceptable? For the tenant as well as you?

Or have you simply fallen for the usual divide and rule and blamed the tenants rather than the govt?

"this is where you are getting confused. LLs have NO moral duty or obligation to you. Nor SHOULD they be expected to." They DO have a legal obligation NOT to discriminate against people with protected characteristics - even indirectly with policies that may not be immediately obviously discriminatory. Most housing benefit recipients are women!

"nothing LLs are doing by excluding DSS tenants is illegal. There is no 'have to' about it." I beg to differ - and some judges are starting to agree with me!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42979242

There's other cases going to court challenging this on sex and disability discrimination grounds.

"They thought they were dealing with grown ups?" Some "grown ups" don't have the ability to handle finances well, they may have learning disabilities or mental illness that makes this difficult. In theory these people can get their housing payment paid direct to landlord but it's much harder on UC than it used to be. That's just going to lead to more arrears etc so it's in landlords as well as tenants interests to lobby govt to change this.

ivykaty44 · 23/01/2019 20:01

KA the landlord isn’t the claimant of housing benefit - the tenant is the claimant and even when hb is paid directly to the landlord - which it is in some cases, the hb department can’t talk to the landlord without the tenants agreement

PinkGin24 · 23/01/2019 20:02

@Seline 'it may, in fact be illegal', ye good luck with that ridiculous line of thought...

As a dog owner, if I wanted to rent, maybe I should say it is illegal to refuse pet owners Hmm

KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin · 23/01/2019 20:02

No, people shouldn't have anything deducted from their income if they are expected to pay that bill with their own money.

But I do think that any state benefit that is given with the express intention of it being passed onto a third party for a very specific purpose should just be paid to the third party in the first place, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't understand why there is such objection to it. It would be so much easier all round and avoid so many problems.

KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin · 23/01/2019 20:06

Yes I know that ivykaty I realise why, under the current system, it's not really possible but I think the system should be overhauled. I don't understand why people object to it so much - surely anything that gives people on low incomes more security in their home and less risk of building up debt has to be a good thing, and yet all I ever hear are people complaining that it's not right or fair for HB to go directly to the LL. Confused

Bumblebee39 · 23/01/2019 20:08

@KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin

It's all one pot of money though.

Wages get divided into rent, food, bills, etc.
Likewise so do benefits

I think it's patronising to say that it's just people on benefits who can't budget

Plenty of people receive their housing benefit, add top up from other income, either wages or benefits, and pay the rent promptly and appropriately

You don't automatically become incapable of budgeting just because you get housing benefit, just as you don't automatically become capable of budgeting if you are a wage earner who doesn't get any housing benefit

Most people are paying their rent out of lots of different pots of money anyway. One month it's from housing benefit and wages, the next from housing benefit and savings, the next savings and credit card etc.

I have paid housing costs upfront before and found at afterwards that I could have top up from housing benefit. Should my landlord be sent that money? No, they'd already been paid, it was me who was out of pocket

swingofthings · 23/01/2019 20:08

Upthread someone tried to give the example of shopping etc - my money's as good to Tesco, my energy company etc as anyone else's they're not allowed to refuse me service based on where my money comes from - can you imagine?! This is exactly the same
If you get a shopping full of goods at Tesco, pass the checkouts without paying, security will stop you and call the police. You'll be banned from shopping there in the future.

LL don't have that luxury. They have to ket the shopper leave with their food unpaid and let them come and do the same the next month and the next because they can't stop it until a judge says its OK.

Do you really think Tesco would let everyone in if that was the risk they were taking? No Tesco has the right to call the police and have you arrested if you don't pay for what you bought, LL have to shut up and put up with it.

ilmmaiss · 23/01/2019 20:08

@TinklyLittleLaugh Exactly what I was talking about. You sound lovely, and thank you for highlighting my point from the other side. You get the money but also can live knowing you've made somebody's life a lot easier than it could have been. Like you say, win win.

ivykaty44 · 23/01/2019 20:08

but if someone is getting child benefit payments why not pay it directly to the council towards council tax?

Bumblebee39 · 23/01/2019 20:10

Exactly @ivykaty44 where does it stop?

Swansongbabe · 23/01/2019 20:10

My dss tenant moved out the weekend before she was due to and gave the keys to people who sold crack all weekend from the empty flat. On the plus side the flat was incredibly clean...

KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin · 23/01/2019 20:13

Because child benefit payments are not for council tax. They are for incidentals relating to the upkeep of a child.

To try to work out what every individual was entitled to in benefits and then minus them from whatever they owed in council tax would get very confusing and expensive and some people in receipt of CB might not even be registered as council tax payers. Also isn't CB paid centrally while HB is a local authority benefit?

KirstyAllsoppsFatterTwin · 23/01/2019 20:16

To say 'where does it stop?' is daft. It stops with the benefit that's paid with the express intention of it being used for something very specific. If you are eligible for a council tax deduction/benefit it comes off your council tax bill. They don't give you that money and expect you to give it straight back them, do they?

nicoala1 · 23/01/2019 20:17

I have every sympathy for those trying to find accommodation from private LLs whilst on benefits. It must be a bloody nightmare.

I have often wondered if the following might help the situation at all?....
(Note, I haven't a clue about the legalities of it but someone may help there).

Say there are a list of vetted tenants and LLs willing to let to those on benefits. Instead of the tenancy agreement/lease being given to the tenant, it is given to the Council who sublet it legally and with LL approval to a suitable tenant. Council guarantee the rent to LL every month. Council deals with inspections/anti social behaviour/overholding/evictions etc. LL deals with Gas certs and maintenance etc.

There would be a queue of LLs signing up for such an arrangement I am sure of it. Just a thought.

ivykaty44 · 23/01/2019 20:18

KIrstyA because why should people on low incomes and zero hours contracts have another overhaul of a system to suit the employer and landlords

Why not tackle the issues at the cause of the problem and get living wages paid with secure employment contracts and more social housing built so that more people can rent a home rather than a house

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