to get annoyed at people who say 'a happy mummy equals a happy baby'....

[jacl]

This really annoys me. It is often accompanied by the comment ' babies should fit into your life, you shouldn't have to fit in to their's'
Often used as a reason not to breastfeed or not to persist when it is difficult in the early days. It drives me mad that so many people expect a baby to be an accessory that does everything by the book.
In my opinion the people who feel like this are trying to make themselves feel better about putting their own needs ahead of their babies. Have they never heard of feeding on demand???
Surely a small baby can't, in a lot of ways, be expected to fit into your life. A small baby is only aware of it's own needs.
I know that eventually parents need their own time and space but surely not in the early months.

jacl - if we recast your question as "to get annoyed at people who undermine my choice to BF my baby" then I think the responses would be more positive towards you. I do agree that I would be p*ssed off at negativity towards feeding choices.

So is the real issue that you'd like to breastfeed but you lack support from friends and family? Your op and quoting happy mum = happy baby is just being het up about it perhaps?
If it is this, then stick with it if you're enjoying it, and find a breastfeeding support group in your area.
Im not agreeing with your op btw but wondering if this is the reason for it.

I got very drunk with my brother and sister in the garden last night, - (don't usually drink very much so it doesn't take alot).

My babies were very happy as they got to stay up past bedtime filling the sitting room with stones from the garden and cellotaping small pieces of paper to the walls. As i discovered this morning through my shameful and blinding headache.

lulu/morocco-i think it depends on what sort of area you live in.i think there are a few gutter-mummies where i am.at least,i assume the women coming out of the bar accross the road with their stretchmarks on display are mummies....

I think i didn't explain it very well. I just think that expression is over simplifying things and what makes an adult happy doesn't necessarily filter down to a baby. I understand that if something whether it is breastfeeding or whatever is not working for you or making you miserable then this wouldn't be good for you or the baby either.
The partying was just an example of how maybe a happy mummy wouldn't equal a happy baby.

diva, 'gutter mummies' is that what they call them round your way?

And I know what you mean about the hm=hb comment in this context since I got it too and in my state of near madness decided to take it as a criticism of my choice to continue bf.

My reasoning being that I was certainly not happy with the excruciating pain therefore was ds also not happy? Ergo, it was selfish for me to continue and not make him happy by switching to ff..... but I must stress that this was my own crazed interpretation of a well meant (for the most part) easy platitude.

x-posted, yes that's what I meant but I don't think the people that say it mean it that way actually. For the most part they think they're making you feel better... Giving you "permission" to give up, which if that's not what you want to do is not helpful.

you are right, bookthief, and I retract my 'unhappy mummy = unhappy baby' cos that's not true either
I knew custy was right

It annoys me (in response to title) because it isn't always possible.
(Going to yabber about single mums' rights now)

Having to have a child's father in your life, someone who is totally uncommitted yet has the right to fight you for access, harrass you and generally make your life a misery, does not make for a happy mummy. And the kids will know this and it will upset them because mummy is upset. Yet there is nothing that can be done to prevent him being around.

Therefore in relation to this, I get very annoyed when I hear this phrase.

(and since DS1's father did a bunk, I am a much happier mummy and have a much happier DS1!!!)

Just IMO...

I think you're confusing a few issues here - and I think you risk a massive flaming bringing the breast-feeding debate in to it. Of course, generally, hm=hb in the most general sense if we are talking on a daily level when mum is happy with meeting baby's needs. But this does not mean that an unhappy mum (whether it be through PND, illness, or just plain low) means baby will be unhappy. Babies famously CAN'T empathise. They are happy if their needs are met. It is possible to meet all these needs for a baby whilst bawling your eyes out and far from happy, and thus produce a "happy" baby. I think the mums who find their happiness from drinking etc are in the minority and certainly don't constitute the reason amongst my mum-friends who stopped breast-feeding, the reasons were as varied as the number of people I know. And all valid, not that it is my place to judge. Also happiness is a ridiculous emotion to try to quantify. I have never been happier than the last year when I have had my son. However, I have also been through the hardest thing I have ever experienced (diagnosed with a chronic dibilitating illness) and at times been the most low I have ever been. The two don't seem to go hand in hand. Yet my DS is a happy, well balanced one year old but sometimes no matter how happy I am he will be in a grump that day!

A miserable bitter witch of a mother certainly doesn't make a happy baby, that much I know.

That comment- happy mummy=happy baby is generally applied to mothers who have tried and can't breastfeed and who are tearing themselves up with the guilt of it all. So in that case happy mummy does = happy baby.

TBH I don't think you'll find a high percentage of mothers who go out partying all the time to the detriment of their babies. Most of us try to be good parents and our babies welfare is paramount to us. Our views of what is best for baby may be different but at the heart of every mother is total love for our children

I agree with weegle: it's much more complicated than hm=hb.

I think it's just a well-meaning cliche which wouldn't bother me, except that in a hormone-ridden state it's easy to read way too much into it.

eg if you say this to someone with PND they might hear this as "if you aren't happy your baby won't be happy either and it will be YOUR FAULT".

Or if you say this to someone with a colicky crying baby they might hear it as "Your baby is unhappy so it must be because you aren't happy and therefore YOUR FAULT".

Not rational, but new mums don't really "do" rational. Which is why I think it's tactless to suggest even in the slightest way that anything they do will affect their baby's happiness.

I think in all relationships it's sometimes necessary to put yourself second and that includes in relationships with children. Most parents do all the time. Now that might mean the parents going back to work quickly even if they'd prefer to stay home because for that baby and family the parents working is what will lead to a happy baby or it might mean parents getting up half the night because the baby has needs that have to be met but most parents just get on with it.

It takes a very unusual mother to be happy without meeting her child's needs
That said I do believe that a child (and I say child, not little baby) should fit into the family. I don't think you do a child any favours by arranging your whole life around it. There has to be a balance.

In my case a sleeping baby = happy mummy. I have always enjoyed breast feeding and being "tied" to my children but other people find that unbearable. Strangly their children seem to grow up just fine. Generally I am trying to give up telling other people how to parent their children as I realize how little I know about it. If you encounter an unhelpful comment try smiling sweetly and saying "I'm really glad that worked for you" or you could try "Butt out".

A stressed mummy can = unhappy baby, for the simple reason that babies cry. If you are stressed you will not cope as easily. But a happy mummy does not necessarily = happy baby because as you said, mummy may be happy because she has just smoked the biggest joint in the universe (or something) and can't work out that baby is crying cos he's pooed green diarrhoea down his leg. [should it be a grin or sad emoticon?]

Lots of good points...but surely the main point is - don't get so wound up about cliched 'pearls of wisdom' in the first place? Granted, new mothers are THE MOST TOUCHY CREATURES ON EARTH (I rememeber it well) but as a mum you're going to have to eventualy get used to: a) lots of well meaning people giving you unsolicited and usually shit advice; b) being criticised whatever you fricking well do.

Plus 'happy baby = happy mummy' isn't nearly as fucking annoying as:

'Just leave him and he will eventually cry himself to sleep' (or go purple, vomit all over his winnie the pooh cover-let and grow up to hate you...)

'A full baby is a baby that sleeps well' (or a baby that wakes up every 2 hours to shit)

...and, ooh, about 2 hundred other annoying pearls of shite

"I recently had my first baby and decided to breastfeed. I really didn't get much support from friends/family. Just a lot of negative comments about being a prisoner in my own house, baby hanging off me again."

I could have written that! Also got lots of pressure to express milk, from dh, so we could go out, "like a normal couple again". And after a week and a half after giving birth, "normal" was the last thing I felt.

I got very down due to the lack of support I was getting with bfing (apart from MN, of course, and fellow MNers / post-natalclubbers) and the last thing I wanted to hear was "maybe he cries so much because you're unhappy and he's picking up on it" (which was how I interpreted "happy mum = happy baby").

The most annoying thing is that ds has improved (have got lots of support with bfing now, plus he is just that bit older and more chilled out at 11 wks) and dh thinks it's because I'm happier due to me taking 20mg prozac each day.

oh..my opinion: parents need their own time and space EVEN in the early months.
without the bits of peace and quiet i had, i would have went crazy.

IMO kids never really care whether their parents are happy until they have children of their own and even then it's touch and go.
If you tried to meet their every need or whim you'd be sat next to them whilst they sit their A Levels and driving them back from nightclubs when they are 25.
You have to insist on me time from word go.

Well I think it is a pretty fair assumption to think that an unhappy mum will probably lead to an unhappy baby.

So so long as mum is not doing anything to harm, neglect or upset the baby, then I do think her happiness has be be considered extremely important. A baby's needs are, afterall pretty minimal - love, comfort, food, changing, cleaning.

A mum's needs are obviously more complex than that and once hormones come into play, which they most certainly following childbirth, they get even more complex. And mum's need do need to be met as well.

Compromise is the key, but mum can't be unhappy - this will have a negative affect on baby.

Good post Hulababy. I agree babies need to be loved and cared for, but they DON'T need to be the centre of anyone else's existence. 'Me' time is important for mum, dad, and ideally mum and dad together time, from the word go. We don't do ourslves or our children any favours by playing the martyr and thinking they need us to attend to their every whim. I always find it useful, when I'm struggling with any aspect of parenting, to look at the adults I know and think'who would i like my children to grow up like?' And the ones I feel are happiest are the adults with a healthy degree of independence and self reliance. This has to come from somewhere - they don't just arrive at adulthood like that.

i totally 100% agree with the OP - of course mums need some me time, they need some mummy and daddy time too - but baby comes first, end of!