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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To stop him seeing them? Please help!

46 replies

Melon6412 · 19/01/2019 16:42

Hello all, I need some urgent and fast advice, for this reason I am posting in AIBU.
And I apologise in advance, please, please do not attack me for the length of this, I am so lost with how to tackle this situation and I want to give all relevant information.

For background:

I am currently going through a divorce with my ex after a lengthy marriage and 3 children, all daughters, together. The divorce is not an issue, all decisions regarding assets and financials have been made, agreed and committed to.
He is in his early 40’s and I am in my late 30’s. We split up because he admitted he was having an affair with a married woman, was in love with her and wanted to get divorced to build a life with her.
There was NO argument from, marriage was over there and then. Fast forward and she is still with her husband and they are no longer together. At the time of the split, our children were 7, 3 and 1.

They are now 11, 6 and 5.
I have never had to argue with him regarding his financial commitments to our children. The only thing we have ever clashed about since the split is his lack of effort with our children.
When he left he promised he would see them every weekend. As time went on this went down to once a month at his insistence.
He has never had them overnight or for any holiday period which is ok with me but the eldest 2 have increasingly felt annoyed about this as time as gone on.

My eldest and him were very close before the split. After the split my eldest took it very hard, the middle one has only this year started to connect the dots regarding the split and the youngest is just happy go lucky and thankfully doesn’t seem too bothered by it all.
Over the last 18 months, my eldest has become increasingly distressed about his lack of effort in terms of seeing them:

He never, ever attends anything at school, does not matter how important or how much notice he is given, he simply won’t attend.
He is never, ever on time when he is supposed to be seeing our children even though it’s only once a month. He is always late and my eldest gets really irate about this.

He has always insisted on seeing our children at my house. When he sees them, he never has any structured activities or quality time planned with them. He will sit around my house with them and they will sort of entertain themselves and he will then take them out to get some food. For context we live in a lovely little village which is full of parks and greenery, I mean there 3 about 5 minutes walk from our front door. He will not voluntarily take them out on their bikes or do a puzzle with them, my children will happily bake and cook, he won’t initiate anything like that with them, he just does nothing of any substance
He is short and snappy with them, sometimes telling them to ‘shut up’ or calling my eldest an ‘idiot.’
When they are with him he will ALWAYS call me to tell me child x is crying and then I’ll have to talk to and soothe said child over the phone
He will go weeks without speaking to them over the phone, I have suggested so many times that he even Facetime them or something, it is always flat out refused.
My eldest gets anxious a lot where he is concerned, she worries about him. We do not know where he lives, he won’t tell us, and sometimes she’ll wonder if he’s even warm or not.
He has no involvement in any issue regarding their health. Does not celebrate their achievements in any way. Is very, very dismissive of them and of me.
Because our children have no structure with him, my eldest is always in an agitated state where her Dad is concerned and has a lot of pain, anger, issues with rejection and extreme frustrations with him. Sadly she is also desperate to have a relationship with him and be loved and understood by him and so she is not willing to give up on him or let him go.

Now here is the issue:
Since the split to the present day, he has let our children down numerous times when it comes to doing something he has said he is going to do. My eldest especially has been massively affected by this trait of his. I am not making reference to small things like ‘you promised you would read with me’ or ‘you promised we would watch a movie’ but huge things like making plans to spend some one on one time with her, letting her build up her excitement all week and then cancelling the day before, literally the day before and it crushes her every single time he does it. I would like to add that for me, if you use the words ‘I promise’ with a child, you had better damn follow it through.
He has also just gone quiet with communication with our children for no reason. For example, he will ignore my eldest child’s pleas over text, voice note and phone calls when she has begged and begged him to just least just get in touch and let her know he is ok, BECAUSE he is being so quiet. The ticks go blue, he reads the messages etc and then ignores her but then on the other hand will tell her that he loves her. I have warned him and warned him to either follow through on his word or not agree to it in the first place.

The latest incident happened a very short while ago. My eldest has a low self esteem and is highly self critical of all she does even though she is an accomplished student, lovely and kind child, a wonderful big sister (bar their usual sibling bickering) and has good friends around her. I try and try to build her up but she believes her Dad left because she wasn’t good enough and then I remind her that it was because of someone else and she will say ‘well then AFTER he left he has made no effort with me so clearly I am not good enough.’
5 months ago she signed up for an event with the consent of her Dad being there to see her perform and then drive her home afterwards. The event was due to end around 9.30pm and was about 90 minutes from where we live. She asked him if would a) attend and b) bring her home afterwards. He told her yes, emphatically, ‘yes, yes, yes!’ I kept asking him, are you sure? Are you sure? And he kept telling me the same thing. So, we purchased a ticket, my daughter attended practice every single week after school and really threw herself into the entire process. A week before the event I asked him what do you want to do about your ticket? I have it here, if it is difficult for you to get there for any reason, just tell me and I will go instead. He insisted he was going and to post the ticket to his parent’s house from where he would collect it. So I did.
2 days before the event he texted me out of the blue and said ‘put her pyjamas in her bag, I may be booking into a hotel.’ That is all he text. I asked him for some background as to why he couldn’t bring her back home?
Over the next 2 days he jumped between I will bring her back to it will be hard for me and make it easier if I don’t have to. I the end I spoke with her school who are fully aware and her wonderfully kind and trusted teachers offered to drive her home after the event. Once this was confirmed, we are now the evening before the event, I told him he didn’t need to bring her back now, all he had to do was be there to see her. Nothing else.
The day of the event, he called me 2 hours before he was due to be there to say he can’t make it because of work. I was devastated but decided there and then that he is not going to see them anymore, ever. I have given him over 3 years to rectify his approach to them, there is so much more I could add to this post but it’s already massively long.
During the conversation when he cancelled he said ‘fine, I’ll leave work now and go!” And I told him no, under no circumstances are you to go there now. He then said ‘well now I’m saying I’ll go and YOU’RE stopping me from doing so.’
I told him he is not seeing them anymore. I then text and said I had spoken to the school and they knew not to expect him.
He then texted me straight after regarding our finances and how he will do whatever necessary to make sure I feel secure in our financial arrangement.

Today I have asked that we speak over the phone to iron out the finer details regarding him not seeing them. He has agreed and is calling me after the children go to bed.
I absolutely will not be changing my mind, he has emotionally abused and neglected them always with the promise to improve but never has and our daughters, especially the eldest have been desperate to see him. I feel so completely worn out, I would not allow anyone else to do this to them, so why is it ok for him? Because he is their Dad? No. I am done and will not be moving from my position.

My questions are:
How do I tackle this with my children? My eldest is due to start secondary, is well on her way into puberty, is finding her own little identity and then this. She still doesn’t know he didn’t attend even though the first thing she asked when she got home was, ‘where was Dad, I looked and looked but couldn’t see him anywhere.’ I deflected.
My middle one is fiercely independent on the surface, she will not show any vulnerability to anyone but is very insecure and emotional when she talks to me. She internalises a lot. She is only 6.
The youngest is blissfully unaware as she doesn’t remember it any other way.
How do I help them?
Is it better coming from him? (He is a coward so I don’t even know if he would tell them himself.)
Do I tell them he is going away? If so do they chat on the phone?
How much will it screw them up by telling them the truth? How much pain will it inflict in terms of their future selves? Will they look for father figures in messed up relationships when older? Does anyone please have any experience of this?
How do I mitigate the effects of his utter selfishness?
What practical questions do I ask him?
Does he give up his PR? Just any advice at all please. I am utterly heartbroken for my children but relieved that he will be going away and just want it finalised and done so I can get on with helping them to deal with it all and hopefully to heal.

Thank you.

Note:
None of our children are SEN or have any medical conditions so he cannot use that as an excuse in terms of he can’t handle them.
They were all planned so he wasn’t tricked or forced into becoming a Dad.
He has never reneged in any way on his financial responsibility towards them.

OP posts:
drinkygin · 19/01/2019 16:49

Ohh op 😢 I’m so sorry. What an absolute twat you ex is. I would advise maybe to speak to your children, particularly the eldest, before going NC with their dad. While I agree the relationship is damaging for them, and he doesn’t deserve your three beautiful children, you don’t want your child to resent YOU for making the decision. I’m sure they will naturally come to this decision themselves anyway. Your kids are lucky to have a wonderful supportive mum like you Flowers

Melon6412 · 19/01/2019 16:52

@drinkygin than you for your kind words.

I am so utterly and desperately sad for my girls but I will not let them see that. I have only allowed him to carry on for as long as he has because my eldest has been adamant that she needs to see him and 'get to know him' and 'get back the last 3 years that she has lost since she was 7'. It breaks me.

But he keeps doing this, he keeps letting them down. We live in a constant flux of anxiety because we just can't rely on him, even after agreeing to and facilitating all that he has demanded from me.
Is it really more damaging for them to simply not see him anymore? He is not doing anything good for them right now at all.

OP posts:
WhoGivesADamnForAFlakeyBandit · 19/01/2019 16:53

Your poor DD.

Isleepinahedgefund · 19/01/2019 16:57

the children have a right to see their parents, it isn’t your right or his right, it’s theirs. Please bear that in mind. You can’t unilaterally decide they’re not seeing him, in fact they will most probably hugely resent you for this when they’re older. If he decides to go to court he will get access.

Parents can’t just give up or sign away their parental rights because they feel like it either.

You need to make them available for contact, but you do not need to facilitate it, which it sounds like you have been doing. You don’t have to have him in your house. You dont have to arrange things. You don’t have to get involved. Let him be crap all on his own and the kids will see it loud and clear. Yes it will hurt, but it will be his fault and not yours. Let him come to them, and you know he won’t. Support them through it. Explain that you’re sorry about it but you can’t make him do anything.

You can turn away from him and put your energy into being the parent that loves and supports them and is there for them no matter what. Do not lay all the adult stuff on them though, that’s not fair.

What you have on your hands is a crap dad basically. Many of them around.

Also, the children are old enough to have some input as well.

Marshmallow91 · 19/01/2019 17:00

Firstly, I'd like to apologise for the utterly terrible time you and your girls have endured.

My personal opinion would be with the oldest, tell her nothing but the complete truth, without any of your opinions thrown in (not that I think you would) unless she asks what you think. Let her know he just isn't strong enough to be a dad any more, because he is only thinking about himself.

Being a dad is a privilege, not a right and it's nothing to do with her or her sisters, but it gives you more strength to make them all know that you need them more than you need air to breathe.

The younger girls, is something only you will be able to judge.

Don't get him to do it, he'll just rattle off excuses and probably promise he'll be back in a couple months.

If you help make excuses for him, or pretending everything is ok, none of the girls will trust you again. None of you deserve this rubbish, I hope things work out Flowers

Troels · 19/01/2019 17:00

Poor kid. All you can do is to keep reassuring her it's not her, it's him.
He doesn't deserve three lovely children does he.

GinDoll · 19/01/2019 17:00

How awful for your children and awful for you. My eldest has a father exactly the same. It's heartbreaking. Eldest is a teenager now and has very little to do with his father but is still hurt when he doesn't receive so much as a card for his birthday etc. I have no advice. For me I stopped sugar coating and trying to hide the fact that his dad is hideous a few years back as I did not want eldest to think he was at fault in anyway. I had a long talk with him about how his father would probably never be able to be who eldest wanted him to be and that he should understand this was his dad's fault. That he (eldest) is a lovely, and loved, child and that his father is basically a selfish, self absorbed twat (said in a much more child friendly way). It was all I could think to do after I heard him tell someone his dad didn't love him. Anyway sorry for being no help, but so you know you're not alone xxx

nellieellie · 19/01/2019 17:10

Am so sorry Melon, this is awful. It is true that contact is viewed as the child’s right, and that it is in the interests of a child that it is maintained - usually, - but I quite understand why you want to just end contact as the constant repeated expectation and then disappointment must be dreadful for your DD. It is hard to see how contact like that can be in her best interests.

The only thing is, you don’t want your DCs to think it was you that stopped contact. In later years, you can bet your ex will use it against you.

Can you try to get some sort of family counsellor to help? Maybe getting him to state what contact he can honestly keep to? Or maybe even HIM coming to conclusion he cannot maintain contact. He needs to realise how he is damaging his DDs self esteem and realise what the consequences may be for her being confident and happy in her life. Is there anyone you respect who can help? Eg a relative of his? Maybe there is some charity for single parents who can advise?

Ribbonsonabox · 19/01/2019 17:13

I think you are doing the right thing. His behaviour will damage them far more than not seeing him will. Yes they have a 'right' to contact with him but he is emotionally abusing them. If he went to the courts for contact they would expect him to show he was committed to seeing them regularly and not letting them down, before they granted him any access rights.. how is this different? So in think you are totally right in what you have decided.
I dont have any advice for you but I'm so sorry you and your daughters are going through this. You sound like a wonderful mother so hopefully they will heal from this once he is no longer in their lives. Flowers

HJWT · 19/01/2019 17:14

I think if it was me I would sit them down and just explain that you don't think it is appropriate for them to have contact with there dad at the minute as he is making quite selfish decisions and letting them down repeatedly, ask them how they feel about that and go from there... see what they want... Maybe tell them it would be best to stop seeing dad till they are 16 and can understand better and make the decision for themselves. If they are determined they still want contact then tell exH he need to start coming round twice a month for 2/3 hours and spending quality time with them BUT do not tell the kids so if he doesn't show up it wont effect them, if they ask why they haven't seen him just say he has been busy with work, if the older child is 11 I don't see the need to sugar coat it for her xx

SometimesMaybe · 19/01/2019 17:20

Well, it sounds like you are a great
Mum and your dc have all they need from you. I would chat through with the oldest and then try and arrange counselling - she is about to enter a really tricky stage in life and how she views herself and determine how she allows boys (or girls if that’s her preference!) to treat her in future.

TimelessOne · 19/01/2019 17:24

@Isleepinahedgefund Not if the children are being emotionally neglected which appears to be the case as demonstrated by the fathers' actions over years, this isn't a short period of time. If he went to court to get access, @Melon6412 could oppose it. Melon, do you have a social worker involved? I'd suggest you do so, to help fight your corner. Health visitor another option, as is GP. I think you need to take, especially, your eldest to the GP for a CAMHS referral as this twats behaviour has clearly had, and is having, a substantial effect on her mental health. ThanksThanksThanks

Awittyusernameishardtofind · 19/01/2019 17:47

Wow. This is my childhood!He sounds a lot like my dad. He will always be selfish. It will always be him first and we were expected to slot into his life. He didn’t want to have a formal agreement and we were expected to arrange with him when we would see him. He always had an excuse and eventually it fizzled out to the point that we no longer speak. To be honest I’m happier for it. It’s hard knowing that a parent thinks so little of you. I’m desperately sorry for your children having to go through this but having an amazing mum always looking out for their welfare like you will make the situation easier. I’m sure that over time they will come to the same conclusion I have. That he’s the one who missed out. X

I would Explain to your children that the current system you have in place isn’t working and that you can see how much it is upsetting them, especially the eldest. For that reason you and their dad have discussed it together and BOTH come to the decision that for the time being it’s best that their father doesn’t see them.

I would make it clear that you both agreed to this so it doesn’t sound like you’re stopping him seeing them or that he just can’t be bothered.

Tell them that this is a chance for their dad to get his act together. It doesn’t mean that they won’t see him again but that if he wants to see them he needs make some improvements in his life. It’s nothing that they’ve done. He needs to be responsible if he wants to be in their lives because they deserve better than they’re getting at the moment

Soontobe60 · 19/01/2019 17:58

Do your DCs see any family on their fathers side?
It sounds like he may be suffering from depression and that's not surprising looking at the poor choices he has made with his life.
I would not tell your children you are stopping them from seeing him, I would go down the line of dad can't be relied on to do what other dads do, so don't get your hopes up. I would not have him seeing them at your house. That gives out mixed messages. Arrange to drop them at his, and if he won't tell you his address, then what about a relative? Maybe his parents?
I know it's crap, and you've done the best you can, it don't put yourself in a position of being the villain, the impact of stopping them seeing him could be just as great on them as who currently happens.

ShawshanksRedemption · 19/01/2019 18:01

It doesn't sound like he knows how to be a dad. What was he like with them before you split? You say he and the eldest were close - did they do stuff together? If he did then something else is going on. He won't let you know where he lives, only sees the kids at your place, and is erratic in his behaviour. I wonder how his mental health is? I'm wondering all this as if it is a possibility you could say that it's her dad's mental health that is causing him to act like this, and it's not her at all. That when someone has bad mental health they need time away from others to heal.

Anyway, back to you and your kids. I think you need expert advice and help. Your DD could do with a counsellor; are school aware of her feelings? They may have access to support groups or even a counsellor in the school itself. Do your kids have any other male role model in their lives (uncle, grandad etc) who could help them to see that not all men are like this and that they are valued?

Cheekylittlenumber · 19/01/2019 18:14

My DH had the same issue with his father. He would tell me stories of sitting outside his mums house for hours waiting for his dad to pick him and his little brother up.

His dad would either not turn up or be really late and mess his mum around.

DH had a great father figure in the form of his step father, but I’m sure it’s damaged him in some way. He can be a bit emotionally disconnected (even though he’s a very gentle, sensitive man) It must be a coping mechanism (his mum is the same)

I wouldn’t stop their dad seeing them, but like other posters have said I’d have an honest conversation with your eldest, without any anger etc, and also leave your ex to set up the meetings. Ensure your daughter/kids always have a fun back up if dad doesn’t show “oh well, let’s go to the cinema” and talk to them about it, about how they’re feeling.

I don’t think my DH was talked to much about it. His mum was a very fair person and would never speak ill of his dad. But I think better communication would have helped. At 11 she’s emotionally aware.

seastargirl · 19/01/2019 18:18

Personally I would still give them the opportunity to send letters or cards maybe once a month. This way they will feel they are communicating and they will see the failure to respond. As hard as it is I feel the just stopping all contact could almost allow the eldest to build up an image that he would see her if he could and maybe one day will make the effort to come back. With a written form of communication it'll demonstrate that he's still a twat.

My dad was very similar to this, my mum used to tell us it wasn't anything to do with us, but that some people just aren't very good at being grown ups and nothing we can do can alter that.

LuaDipa · 19/01/2019 18:46

I’m sorry op, I’ve no advice, but I certainly can’t blame you for taking the stance you have. Your ex is scum and your dd’s deserve better, but at least they have a dm who is devoted to them.Flowers

Hopeandglory3 · 19/01/2019 19:38

Could he have a partner/ other children and this is why he won't tell you where he lives and also why he cancels at short notice if he is living a life of deceit?

Melon6412 · 19/01/2019 20:35

Thank you so much to everyone that has taken the time to respond to me. To answer a few questions:

We do see his side of the family albeit not a regular basis, they too cannot understand his behaviour and know as much (or as little) about his life as I do. The thing is, I have no desire to 'know' about his life as such, I am just interested in him creating stability for our daughters. When I have previously and calmly spoken to him about the fact that he isn't a natural parent, he has concurred with me and even said himself that he can see how it would be better if he didn't see them as he is likely to let them down. But when it has come down to it, he has always maintained that he cannot live without them and in whatever capacity it is, he needs to see them.

I do believe he has some underlying and undiagnosed mental health issues or perhaps even some for of Autism or Aspergers? Example of this is when he cancelled going to our daughters latest event, I was sobbing my heart out (hated myself for crying about it for him to hear me!) and while I was crying, he was talking about how nice the lobby outside his office is and how he's never felt better because I was asking if he was doing this due to a health issue or something!! I just understand him one bit! That's not normal right?

He is very odd and often appears detached and uncaring but then in the next breath will be empathetic and understanding? His view of things is very much 'his' view, his time, he is tired, he has to work, he cannot do anymore than he does, it's all very 'he' centric. Again I empathise with all of that and have offered to drive them him, wherever that may be, he always says no it isn't practical. I have offered to take the children to his parents over 2 hours away from AND pick them up and bring them home and he can see them there, he always says no. Some of my friends and family are convinced that he does what he does because he is fixated on me rather than our children, I don't feel that way at all. I just think he is not a natural parent, he does not have bad intentions and I know he loves them, he just doesn't seem to have the same instincts and approaches that I feel a 'normal' Dad should.

I have often wondered if he has another family somewhere and genuinely, if he told me that I would just be relieved that I can attribute his erratic behaviour to something tangible rather than feeling like I am going crazy in my own head!

He does not let our children want for anything financially. For the longest time he would just keep on throwing stupid money at them whenever he saw them buying them things like phones, x-box (which they have no interest in and it never get played so we returned it to him), toys they don't need or expensive coats and shoes! I have put a stop to all of that now as I'm very strict and aware that they need to see Dad as DAD and not a bank they can withdraw from as and when they want, especially as they get older.

If our children are emotional with him about something then he will literally say to them, 'it is my life and my choice and I don't have to tell you.' This is whenever our daughter will ask him where does he work or can she seem him or will he attend x, y or z. He always say 'no' and then gives the above as a reason when she asks why.

He is very cold distant one moment but then can show you that he relates to your perspective the next. When he is around our children he is very affectionate and loving with them, he's always been like that but the minute he goes, it's like he forgets that they exist OR if when he is with them, if they get upset or emotional about anything, he will simply get angry and not try to understand or parent effectively. All of this I can work with him on, all of it but it seems the more I try to work with him the more of an arse he becomes.

When we were married I didn't notice it too much as I did the bulk of it all as well as working. We both worked full time but I did everything with the kids, including all of the nights, sicknesses, weaning, toilet training all of it. He travelled a lot for his job and I would be home every night so I didn't really think any of it and just went with my own really efficient and organised routine.

I know it is always better for children to see their parents, I know that. But this parent is fucking my children up, is that better? Really?

OP posts:
Melon6412 · 19/01/2019 20:37

And also, thank you to so many people that have recognised that I am utterly devoted to them and building their lives and their self worth within this shit storm. I won't ever stop doing that. I just worry what he is teaching them regarding the opposite sex and what is classed as normal and healthy.

HE is not normal and his behaviour is not healthy.

OP posts:
O4FS · 19/01/2019 20:49

I have nothing helpful to add I’m afraid, but I just wanted to say another here who completely relates to what you’ve said.

I don’t (and won’t) tell my DCs they can’t see their DH, but I don’t facilitate it either. Mine are older so make their own decisions. However, my youngest DD is 11 and I have such worries about how she will relate to men and relationships later in life.

Keep supporting them and putting them first. You will more than compensate for their flaky DF.

SimplySteve · 20/01/2019 05:57

I know it is always better for children to see their parents, I know that. But this parent is fucking my children up, is that better? Really?

No, it's not always better, love, and your scenario is exactly the kind where access should be denied, and enforced if needed.

TBH, I'm a bit astounded people think it's ok for this man to have contact. Emotional neglect (some would say abuse, including me) has a longer-lasting impact than physical abuse.

Best wishes @Melon6412

cavycavy · 20/01/2019 06:22

Perhaps the older 2 would benefit from some counselling? (At his expense)

Phillipa12 · 20/01/2019 07:04

You have two options, the first being that you stop the contact because of all the reasons above. The second is that you still make the girls available for contact but you dont facilitate it. If you go for the first and he went to court, he would probably win. If you went for two, visits would decline rapidly and stop of their own accord. Your problem is how the girls see it, you stopping contact or daddy not wanting to see them, you need to be utterly honest because personally i think going option one will be better for your girls, option two with them being slowly eroded emotionally will have a far bigger impact on them mentally for years to come.