to object to £50 school trip

[puffyisgood]

Outer London state primary [lots of affluent parents but also plenty who aren't], yr 3 kids. Matinee of a [fairly popular, fairly new, child friendly] West End muscal. The trip costs parents £50 per child. The school coffers may even be topping up these contributions a little bit [e.g. to pay for transport & for helpers]. As I understand it the tickets were block booked in advance [of the trip being announced] for the entire class. As with all these things parents can announce that they're not paying, but with prebought tickets the money will have to come from somewhere. All the kids want to go of course. As it happens we can afford it easily enough but I know that plenty of other families can't.

I'm mulling over a stern letter to the head. Reasonable or not?

Speak to your school governors if you can't afford it, you'll probably find they are able to help with some of the cost for you. Schools usually have a fund to help less-well off children take part in the same activities.

DH and I are working professionals on reasonable wages. He is in a middle-management type role in a private industry, I am a non-junior NHS employee.

Being on maternity leave means we would struggle to conjure up £50 at the drop of a hat, and we’re only feeding two adults currently! I can easily see how it would be out of reach for many families.

Ah so you did SleepingStandingUp You're a star so don't need any from me. A tip re your fridge though,you've probably done it already but just incase have you checked the little vent hole in your fridge isn't blocked? x

Alarming statistics on child poverty
www.cpag.org.uk/content/child-poverty-facts-and-figures
9 in a class of 30

So ringdonna was right, most can afford it. 9 out of 30 is not most. It's a minority.

Here craft, the reality for many people in the UK!

www.trusselltrust.org/news-and-blog/latest-stats/mid-year-stats/

I suggest you and Ringdonna read the sad and worrying information of the crisis affecting many families across the UK, as I don't think you can quite understand.

Again...nowhere near most. Many is not most. I'm waiting for proof that the majority...that is MOST........cannot afford £50. Not many, not a lot...MOST!!!

I don’t understand why ‘child poverty’ (which ofc is awful) is being so adamantly blamed on the government 🤔

If I read that 9 kids in a class of 30 (for example) live in poverty - I don’t think ‘wow school trips shouldn’t be allowed’ - I think ‘wow- loads of parents are making really irresponsible choices!’

MrDarcy, people blame the government rather than take responsibility for their own choices.

@TheBigBang

A friend of mine is doing a qualification in early childhood development and looked at how many children ‘living in poverty’ were ‘born into poverty’ as opposed to ‘circumstances changing’

According to MN 99% of poverty is caused by the 0.1% failure of good contraception and people unexpectedly losing their jobs! .... I asked her about this and she was adamant this was NOT the case!!!

People just make so many bloody excuses - the ‘exception- of unfortunate circumstances’ is used as a giant shield for people to hide their irresponsible choices behind!

I grew up in poverty due to my dad suffering a serious accident at work, and an unstable mother. It's not always down to "irresponsible choices".

No, 9 out of 30 isn't most, you're right. However, if you're comfortable with 33% of a class growing up in poverty then I have no words for you.

No, 9 out of 30 isn't most, you're right. However, if you're comfortable with 33% of a class growing up in poverty then I have no words for you.

I'm not comfortable with 1 in 30 being in poverty. But I'm also not comfortable with people twisting the truth. People have been arguing on this thread that most families cannot afford £50. That just is not true.

@Craft1905 you are switching terminology to suit your agenda. It wasn't said that most couldn't afford it but that most could. Neither statement is actually true.

With regards children being born into poverty, it is likely true that more are born into than suddenly become that way through circumstance. It is a very simplistic view though and also assuming that those living in that category have the choices many of us take for granted.

Whilst it may seem natural to many people to budget and plan and make considered choices, this is not the norm for all. Not everyone reads baby care books when they're expecting or looks ahead at affording university fees. This is not because they don't care about their babies or because they are intrinsically selfish parents - it's because the world they were born and raised in is entirely different to the one that other people regard as normal.

This isn't necessarily the governments fault but certainly the government can help and in fact schemes do exist - albeit currently underfunded.

It's a cycle and the way to break the cycle is through education. Education about choices and personal responsibility, education in money management. Financial advice, alerting young people to schemes such as help to save and help to buy. Putting young people in touch with schemes such as the ones Barnados run to help them into work.

It's a complex issue which requires a sympathetic approach that understands the poverty trap and the people who grow up in it. Simply judging people as irresponsible helps nobody.

I think a theatre trip is a lovely idea. However, for a school trip, it needs to be something that everyone can easily afford and at £50 a head, this is not possible. You'll have kids feeling bad if they can't go and that's really not on. Do you are not being unreasonable OP. And we'll done for bringing this to your school's attention.

At the end of the day £50 is a lot of money for a Yr3 school trip for the day, something more affordable would have been better, like say half of that. School trips are getting ridiculous now, £600 for a week in Spain for one child, or £1000 ski trip, who on earth could afford that, not many.

Bit unfair to make the assumption that if someone is unable to spend £50 on a school trip, that they must be irresponsible or have made bad choices. You can have a child and provide for them well enough without extras like school trips. I went to some trips abroad with the school but not all. My dc go abroad if we can afford it, some years we can, some we can't because bigger expenses crop up.

MrDarcy, are you seriously saying I have made an irresponsible choice, choosing to spend my money on school fees rather than on school trips? Really??

Some families may be able to 'afford' it, but culturally they don't value theatre, so they might decline on the basis of cost. Whereas if the school had chosen a cheaper theatre trip, of which there are loads, those parents might not think twice about paying.

@ille

🤔 if the fees mean you can’t afford a £15 trip (as per my earlier comments) then yes - it’s ridiculous to send your child to a fee paying school if finances are THAT tight!!

@Craft1905 you are switching terminology to suit your agenda. It wasn't said that most couldn't afford it but that most could. Neither statement is actually true.

I disagree. Most families in this country can lay their hands on a spare £50. £50 not urgently needed for something else, perhaps out of savings. I realise that a lot can't and many more may choose not to....but most can.

Being able to "afford" something is NOT the same as being able to find the money if you need to. On that basis, most people can afford to spend £50 on anything. But that's not true. Most people cannot afford to spend £50 on a bottle of wine, or poisturiser, or a pair of knickers....or a theatre trip for a 7 year old. They can afford £50 to fix the car, replace worn out shoes, pay for an educational weekend trip for an older child. You cannot separate affordability from what the item is that is being paid for. It is not simply about the number of £ and whether they can be "found".

So 9 in 30 kids live in poverty, how does that prove that most families can afford £50? There is a big gap between being in poverty and having £50 for one child for something "fun"

I think nationally the rate of FSM is about 25%.
But it is well documented that the families who fall just above the FSM threshold struggle as much if not more than those who are entitled to it, and that there are as many families in that position as claiming FSM.

They are called the working poor. If you really are in this day and age unable to believe that most families would struggle to find (or to justify) £50 on a theatre trip, then you are living in a bubble.

Yes, they may be able to use their savings. But what are they saving for? Those savings are not usually for a jolly. Those savings are usually there against the car breaking down the roof needing repair, or, maybe on a more positive note, the annual family holiday. They are not there for one child in the family to go off to the theatre.

Being able to 'find' £50 is not the same as being able to 'afford' £50. Many households dont run at a surplus. Using £50 to pay for a frivolous school theatre trip means that something else has had to give. Perhaps the family food shop gets trimmed, perhaps a repair is put back or an extra month is got out of a worn out pair of shoes.

All this so that a group of 8/9 year olds can go to a West End show.

I always feel sorry for people with multiples in cases like this. If you had twins or even triplets, that is so much money for a trip. It’s bad enough for one child, let’s face it. I definitely wouldn’t be able to afford £50 at the drop of a hat. I’m a teacher on mat leave with four under ten’s so not really rolling around in cash.

Apart from anything else I wouldn't have taken to a west end show at that age, he would not have been able to sit still and be quiet for the whole show and would have spoiled it for other people. He has been to the theatre many times, for hour long shows aimed at children.

DS's school have never asked us for a penny for trips. They walk to the library, the canal, the local cinema, the art gallery, the castle and the historic city centre. All happy and well educated.

Once a year the whole school go to the local panto (again, on foot). School pays for the whole shebang.

So 9 in 30 kids live in poverty, how does that prove that most families can afford £50? There is a big gap between being in poverty and having £50 for one child for something "fun"

How many children living in poverty have a parent or parents who smoke, buy lotto tickets, have a pet, have satellite tv? Plenty of kids live in poverty because their parents make bad choices about how the money they do have should be spent.