"Support" staff

[divadee]

I am "support" staff in a school. Some of us have been campaigning to change this to "associate" staff. Teaching staff are a bit twatish where I am and it is very much a them and us culture for about 85% of the teaching staff.

We have said try running a school without the support staff but they just don't see it.

A lot of support staff have said they feel almost subservient to teaching staff because of the attitudes and I think it's shocking.

Aibu to still push to try and change these attitudes?

Do you genuinely think a different title will make people more respectful? Don't be daft 🙄

I’m a secondary teacher and sadly I’ve worked in schools where this attitude has sadly been prevailiant. I always do my best to be really nice to support staff because, as you say, try running a school without them. But some teachers- as in all professions- can be arrogant wankers. YA definitely NBU in trying to change attitudes, but if the culture is ingrained you may be bashing your head off a brick wall.

I am ex secondary teacher and have been a TA too. Certainly in my last school teachers very greatful to the work of support staff were up in arms when the SLT started messing around with their contracts and treating them badly.

I don’t see how changing their name to associate staff would improve anything. What do you think is the problem? Do staff no know what people do? Do they need to be informed at a training day?

mini No I don't but it might make them think just a teeny tiny bit. Small changes and all that.

Your role is to support he children not the teachers
You do different jobs with the same goal

Stop trying to change the name and try working in the attitude instead - push for proper training

I'm quite happy to be support staff. However, I work in a school where the teachers value our contribution, mostly. I think I'd be looking to move schools in your situation.

You're right to push for changes in perceptions and attitudes and all that, absolutely. A name change by itself won't make the slightest bit of difference though, imo. And everyone will still call you support staff, because you ARE support staff.

(I'm support staff in FE.)

🤔 I think the difference between levels should be distunguished - sorry!

What you’re saying OP sounds like you want the same prestige and treatment of being a teacher - without the equivalent qualifications.

I have ALOT of respect for TA’s and such just as I do for health care assistants and Paralegals and ofc you deserve respect - but there is a difference between a TA and a teacher- Health care assistant and Doctor - Paralegal and solicitor!

The more those in ‘support’ roles do to level out the difference the more they subtract from those who have strived to gain the relevant qualifications!

For example my local doctors has created about 5 different levels of ‘nurse’ now, all with different titles sounding more and more like a doctor!

When I ring they ‘without fail’ try to pass you off to see one of them ‘They’re just as good as seeing a doctor you know’

🤔 Twice in the last year have I sat in a room with a jumped up nurse telling me I need antibiotics that they ‘can’t’ prescribe and that (just as I said when I made the sodding appointment) I need to see an actual doctor!

Awesome- so I have to go back to reception and make a whole other appointment/wait a couple of days (whilst rather unwell) because a nurse wanted to feel important? 😣🤔

MrDarcyWillBeMine

I assumed op meant office staff as well not just TAs, and either way many TAs take the job to fit with their child’s school hours and could be just as well educated, just not have the teaching degree. Their skills could still be used and they still deserve respect.

I work in a school office with one other colleague and we are both degree educated. Just because our skills are different to those of a teacher doesn’t mean they aren’t valuable!

But you are a support to the teaching staff and so your title is correct

It just sounds poncy, nor will it make them think a teeny bit, a change of title isn’t going to change their opinion.

Your support staff, to support the teachers and running if the school.

I'd suggest changing your doctor then. I'll happily see a nurse because I know that if they don't feel able to deal with me, they'll get the on-call doctor to have a look. Usually they can sort me out and nurse practitioners can issue prescriptions. It saves a lot of hassle.

@MrDarcyWillBeMine You're coming across as bloody ignorant. You're seeing a nurse because they're cheaper and NHS funding keeps being cut, not because the nurse is jumped up and wants to feel important.

Tbh Mr DWBM sounds like part of the problem.

Most of the support staff I know have relevant degrees and are extremely capable members of staff. Simply have a pgce doesn't make someone amazing at their job.

Associate staff means something entirely different though - it means that you are not employed by the company on a full time employee contract but instead self-contract.

So no, you're not Associate staff

What do you mean "subservient to teaching staff"?

I am support staff, not office or TA.
I am massively appreciated by my department, who know how useful I am. They could do their jobs without me but their working life would be a lot more difficult.
Other departments who don't need support probably see me as a waste of money.
I don't give 2 hoots what my job title is. I am paid to turn up and do what I am asked. Call me a shovel, call me a spade, I'll still be doing the same thing.

@MrDarcyWillBeMine your attitude is disgraceful. Is the receptionist meant to be a psychic and know that you need antibiotics?
The amount of patients on a daily basis that 'demand' unnecessary antibiotics (especially at this time of year) will be incredible.
What are your qualifications to know that you need antibiotics?
(Apart from your husband being a consultant which you made quite clear on the thread about labour wards.)

Unfortunately with the cuts the way they are you were lucky to see a nurse.
I'm sure you'd of moaned if the receptionist said there was no way they could see you.
They fit you in and still they're wrong because you 'just' saw a nurse who needed to 'feel important'.

I gain more respect for the NHS workers on a daily basis.

I think everyone looks down on support staff in schools, not just the teachers.

The time a strike was held for GMB members in education it was the midday supervisors which closed our school. So there was a school full of teachers and LSAs but no pupils because they couldn't be kept safe at lunchtime and we couldn't guarantee parents would take them home at lunchtime for that particular day.
I think that changed the minds of teaching staff about how important midday supervisors were

Back to the OP, I totally agree.

Schools would fall apart if support staff weren't there to, well, support.
So many students are in need of extra help in their daily life nowadays; support that teachers can't physically offer due to the small amount of time they have free.

You shouldn't be treated or made to feel like you're of a lower tier, just because you haven't got a teaching qualification.

I don't see how a name change will help you though, if the teaching staff see you as unnecessary they will no matter the name. I'm not entirely sure how to address the situation, but I feel for you.

My niece would've flunked out of school very quickly if she'd not had the support system she had in the place. She managed to get 11 GCSEs and is currently studying to become a member of support staff herself.

for you.

When I was SENCO I implemented a CPD programme that where teaching staff spent time TAing. It really helped staff see the value - so much so that a number of teaching staff who are “under” teaching wise still do it voluntarily in order to add a bit of capacity and help their colleagues out.

@MrDarcyWillBeMine - honestly you don't sound very respectful.

Nurses and doctors are very different professional and when I chose nursing I didn't do it because I wasn't intelligent enough to be a doctor. A nursing assistant is a completely different role again but the comparison between a nursing assistant and a nurse would have been comparable but not a nurse and a doctor.

And why we have so many "levels" as you put it of nurse is because they can do extra training. Nursing prectricionarers have a similar level of education to doctors, not the same no, but will have done a minimum of 5 years of university, 2 of those post graduate, and they can prescribe but each local authority will put limits on what they can prescribe.

Back to the original post. There is a massive difference between a teaching assistant and a teacher. There roles are different but their responsibilities are an ocean a part. For the most part a TA can leave at the end of the day and that's their job done and that's not the case for teachers. All responsibility ends with the teacher. The obvious like level of education is substantially different.

I worked as a TA for a coupe of years, or it was called pupil support assistant where is worked. There was an attitude of staff that TAs were less and we were often talked down to. I had to point out to one that I was actually more qualified than them and that I had chose this job to fit in with my life at that point and because I hadn't wanted to go back to my previous career. I do get that teachers can be really disrespectful to TAs and that is not right. But I title won't make a difference and you have to respect that the job is different.

I would not appreciate a nursing assistant saying to others they were a nurse, because they are not and there is a massive different in role and responsibility. I don't want someone talking advice from someone without the medical background. They are different roles. Nurses wouldn't manage without nursing assistants in modern day establishments, although they could preform the role, same for teachers preforming the role of TAs but the same is not reversible.

However, everyone should be respected whatever their role.

Local school support staff

One is a qualified teacher
One is a qualified nurse
2 are doing Degrees in their spare time
1 has psychology degree
1 has 30 years school experience and earns more than newly qualified teachers

They aren’t lower than teachers - they support children who need a access the curriculum - they don’t want to be teachers

I am in a similar position OP - support staff in a school.

I've been told by some (fully qualified teaching) colleagues that there is no way they could do my job - and I am generally treated with absolute respect by most of the teaching staff. SLT is a mixed bag, and the rest of the support staff are very much a whole team - caretakers, technicians, office staff etc.

I was however introduced to a visitor as 'just' a recently which I called my colleague on afterwards. We are a team at my school, unfortunately there will always be some people that cannot see that as a education machine ALL the staff are vital.