"Support" staff

[divadee]

I am "support" staff in a school. Some of us have been campaigning to change this to "associate" staff. Teaching staff are a bit twatish where I am and it is very much a them and us culture for about 85% of the teaching staff.

We have said try running a school without the support staff but they just don't see it.

A lot of support staff have said they feel almost subservient to teaching staff because of the attitudes and I think it's shocking.

Aibu to still push to try and change these attitudes?

FrancesFryer speak for yourself! I am a teacher but I do not look down on support staff in any way. I treat them all with kindness and courtesy because we all complement one another. Yes, I'm at "the sharp end" dealing with the students and parents. But they clean and maintain my teaching room, print my resources, ensure the toilets are clean and serviceable, take messages whilst I'm teaching, set out resources in other subject areas, write timetables, sort my computer issues, administer exams.... I appreciate them and tell them so.

To the OP, your school needs to rethink how you are treated. I have worked in a number of different schools during my career and only in one have I seen anything other than good professional relationships, and that was a school with a toxic atmosphere where the support staff gave the impression that anything asked of them was an inconvenience, even if it was their role. I stuck it out for one year and left.

I would have thought it was obvious i was only speaking about the school i was in at the time, not about teachers in general

@seniorcitizen1

That is a misconception, we are not 'Teachers Assistants'.

I am very proud to be a 'Teaching Assistant',

We support the teaching of children using plans the teachers have created. I don't make them cups of teas, take in their dry cleaning, answer the telephone for them or make appointments on their behalf.

Awesome- so I have to go back to reception and make a whole other appointment/wait a couple of days (whilst rather unwell) because a nurse wanted to feel important?

Yes, because Nurses clearly have so much power and authority that they determine the system by which appointments are allocated at your surgery, as well as demanding fancy new job titles
It's not up to them FFS.

YANBU to want to be proud of your role, but YABU to expect everyone to agree with you.

I was a member of police back office type staff many years ago, typing up statements and interviews. Just before I started, there had been a vote - very contentious as I understood it - to change the title from Police Civilian Staff to Police Support Staff.

They were worried about the public perception of calling non-warranted people 'civilians' as it would look like a militarised organisation.

The staff were split and a lot wanted to keep the civilian title, feeling it gave them some gravitas in their roles amongst other things.

It's rather a case of semantics to lots of people, but rather a lot of others are proud of their titles and set a lot of store by them.

I can see all angles that people have put here and it's given me food for thought for moving forward.

I did chuckle how some have assumed a TA type role. Most of the staff complaining are not TA's. I am pastoral, some are very highly qualified mental health professionals, some are office staff etc...... so this isn't people wanting the kudos of being a teacher without the training and degree. These are people who actually want to help the wellbeing of the student experience which if we are to turn out resilient and well rounded students is vitally important. If they can do algebra and pass exams but have an anxiety attack or a meltdown while doing it it's not productive is it? And no matter how good your teaching is, you are not going to get the results required by the government as a school if your students can't cope with the stress.

michonnesBBF I never used the term “teaching assistants” - I said that she supports the teacher, and as teachers teach (amongst the many other tasks they are increasingly required to perform - my DIL is a primary teacher) she therefore supports the teacher to teach the children. Hence support is in job title. QED

Your problem isn’t your job title, it’s your colleagues.

My school made a big deal about changing the way we referred to the kids from pupils to students. It made fuck-all difference to anything.

I have worked as support staff in a school and been practically invisible to some teachers (and senior admin staff too).
In my current job there are children who can't tell which are the teachers and which are TAs. They also don't realise the caretaker isn't a teacher, because the general attitude of management is that all staff make the school run well and we all deserve the same respect. It is unusual, but refreshing.

A change of title just sounds silly to me and like classrooms being branded 'learning environments' etc. It's style over substance and would probably garner more eye rolls than support.

The attitude towards support staff can be brilliant and it can be poor. Equally, the quality of support staff can be brilliant and it can be poor (same for quality of teaching).

I've worked with teachers who arrogantly felt they were above support staff. They do exist and I have no time for that.

Equally, I've worked with support staff (including when i was support staff planning my career change to teaching) who would undermine teaching staff, not cover 50% of thr work in small grojos because they decided to do something else, pastoral staff who'd interrupt lessons repeatedly for non urgent issues, who'd end up being more mates with the kids than a friendly, professional adult figure. Those people would claim that teachers disliked support staff but actually it was a lack of respect for the way they handled things.

If people are serious about shifting attitudes then it needs to be a ripple effect, nice and positive, not changing a title.

I'm an NQT and I'd be totally lost without my TA!

Maisy, as support staff I have met some really shit ones in the past - such as the one who would leave her 1:1 child and bugger off to do things which impressed the head instead. She's a teacher now. She always acted like she was above the rest of us and I hear nothing much has changed.

Most of us are amazing though.

Look, you can pick any fancy title you like but all that will mean is in years to come the teachers at your school will consider ‘associate staff’ to be beneath them. You need to address changing attitudes towards your role rather than nomenclature.

It’s the same with admin staff in offices - “admin support” is looked down on. So are healthcare assistants in hospitals.

You should definitely try to change these attitudes. My DC are in primary school and the support staff are amazing. Many are qualified teachers actually (didn't want the paperwork/stress involved in continuing with being a teacher), qualified or not all involved with my children are highly skilled and absolutely essential.

YouTheCat
I agree.
I think more often than not people treat others based on their experiences and also will recount based on negative experiences more than positive.

E.g. I've heard admin staff in other sectors decide that the people in qualified professional roles were this that and the other. Then it turns out that actually they like most of their colleagues but there were 3 in the last few years who were rude so when they feel irritated at their job, thry just bitch about the 'higher in the chain' group.

E.g. I know a teacher with a not so good view of TAs. It turns out that at their DC school there were about half a dozen school mums taken on as TAs, no qualifications in supporting learning but (and we've seen the posts on here about wanting a nice term time only job to fit around kids) they had started as lunch staff and then got their foot in the door. It wasn't a good set up. As a result they (wrongly) go to that template as default, even though they'd openly admit how much they love the support staff in their school.

One former colleague when I was support staff used to do nothing but bitch about teachers. I had got my place for teacher training by then. The thing is that the colleague was awful, rubbed staff up the wrong way, tried to be mates with the kids, would offer to remove them from lessons just as the teacher was going through the behaviour policy etc. It wasn't an issue with support staff, they had an issue with her attitude.

Ultimately school leaders set the tone of relationships on the whole, but I do get how 1-1 relationships can throw things.

I'm an NQT and I'd be totally lost without my TA!

You need to be prepared. They are a vanishing role and I expect that very few schools will have TAs in 5 years time.

I was an NQT in 1994, I had 37 reception children and 2 hours a week of TA time (during PE). The 1997 labour government increased education funding but since 2010 funding to schools has been declining. If it continues at this rate then we will be back to no TAs.

Maisy, I was one of those mums but I'd been volunteering for 4 years and done a few relevant courses in that time as well. Now I've got 18 years of paid experience. I, mainly, enjoy my job (or 'jobs', as I'm a TA, 1:1 support and dinner staff).

I, generally, feel valued in my work. I visited a school, recently, where I got the impression that support staff weren't valued in the same way. I don't think I could work there.

I don’t see how they can irradiate TAs entirely with the growing numbers of children ‘behind’ or can’t access the curriculum. Some need full time support others daily or weekly additional skills.
Other like a PP need social and emotional care.

Unfortunately a lot of responsibility has been passed on to schools along with an expectation that mothers return to work - I mean who tasing the next generation? Overworked teachers with too many kids and increased numbers of SEN followed by after school provision - home to a quick tea then bed? We are hardly nurturing them are we?

Oh. We have this debate going on at work just now. I’m a solicitor in a fairly large firm. We have “support staff” - secretaries, admin assistants etc. Constantly bitching about “them and us” and that they don’t like the title etc.

But they are support staff. They are there to support the fee earners.

I agree that the issue isn't the job ttle, but the attitude of your colleagues. Oddly, I've worked in a few schools (and am friends with many other teachers) and I've never heard anyone say anything about support staff other than how undervalued and valuable they are, so you must work in an oddity of a school.

I’m support staff at a school and I have no problem with that term. I don’t like associate staff, tbh.

The title is fine. Teaching assistants should be proud to be called support staff. Supporting children can be a very satisfying role in the right setting.

OP I also think it's interesting how many people assumed you were referring largely to TAs (who are of course invaluable in many schools)... support staff can mean so many different roles!

I've worked in a school where the Head regularly made a point of not only publicly thanking support staff (e.g. for a particular project or for working all year round) but who also often reminded teaching staff how many of the support staff were very highly educated. This school was very big on everyone showing respect for everyone, so yes teachers but also admin/catering/domestic/nursing/ grounds staff, sports coaches etc.

I'm a teacher but I spent some time working in admissions at a small independent school. This was a managerial role and obviously critical to the school (not enough kids = redundancies) but I felt treated like shit by a significant number of the teachers, and by a system which meant that, for example, a teacher who had to miss a day of work for a sick child was not docked any pay but I was, as I was 'support staff'. It was definitely cultural there that support staff were inferior to teaching staff, regardless of their actual role.

I say best of luck in trying to shift the culture at your school, it is definitely worth pursuing!

YouTheCat
Except you weren't one of those mum's because you did voluntary experience and courses before getting a job supporting learning so actually knew what you were doing.

Being a good TA is a difficult job to have. I did it as part of my career change to teaching. Great TAs (certainly in secondary) take one area of SEND as specialism and then advise staff who might get one child with thay need every 3 years. In primary they are clued up on reading interventions etc. Supporting learning is a skill. Knowing how to differentiate in the lesson is a skill. Knowing how to run effective intervention groups is a skill. The best TAs I worked with were utterly amazing and an asset to the school. I find it an insult to their professionalism when I see people saying 'I want to be a TA because it fits in with the children so thought I'd try to get my foot in the door at my child's schol' and the advice is 'go for it hun, you can talk about everything you've gained being a SAHP for 5 years'. I've seen it happen a lot and I don't believe that helps relationships.

If schools choose to take on unqualified and inexperienced staff then I don't think it is that surprising that it impacts on professional relationships (if teaching staff are poor and don't do their job well then people get irritated at them, same for support staff).