To wonder when this government are going to stop destroying education?

[brizzledrizzle]

Dbro's children's school was on the news last night as the head was talking about the funding cuts.
Why are the government doing this? I can't see how this is going to mean kids leave school with the skills needed by the country.

Yes, it is, smalldog but the EEF specificaly focuses on them and those stats are then repeated as if they somehow apply to all children.

EEF specificaly focuses on them and those stats are then repeated as if they somehow apply to all children.

Yep, this is why the EEF says setting has a negative effect on pupil progress when it actually has a positive effect on the top end. They just deliberately ignore that.

Why are people wanting to become teachers?

Because of the massive bursary for training which is far more than they’ll actually earn once they qualify? Certainly there’s been a thread about this in the Staffroom recently, with the OP deciding against teaching once they realised that there was a reason for the bursary.

But there still aren’t enough people wanting to be teachers, the DfE are failing to meet their recruitment targets every year, and the number of teachers leaving is increasing.

I want to train to be a teacher - I’ve volunteered in a school in class and with young people a few times now. I really love it - working with young children.

Maths is also my favourite subject so I’d love to teach it.

However I’m fucking put off by the dire state of education in this country. It is worse under the Tory government and continues to get worse. Teachers are treated like shit and talked about like shit. It’s awful.

A lot of people don’t realise how bad things are - they don’t go into schools, they don’t really engage with fundraising or listen to what’s going on. They drop their kids off, pick them up or not at all if there’s wrap around care and that’s it. The things they see - eg their child struggling with reading or friendships etc etc, they’ll just blame the teachers.

Because of the massive bursary for training which is far more than they’ll actually earn once they qualify?

I thought all that had gone by the by?

Nope, £26k tax free to train as a physics teacher, for example. And then you can quit and never teach.

£30k to train as a maths teacher, but only £20k up front, you have to actually teach to get the rest.

I thought all that had gone by the by?

26000 tax free to train in most STEM subjects.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/funding-my-teacher-training/bursaries-and-scholarships-for-teacher-training

Shame they don't do it for primary science as that might encourage more people.

There’s no shortage of people wanting to be primary teachers (in the system, there are definitely areas with local shortages) which is odd when primary teachers work even more hours than secondary.

Maybe when parents stop taking the piss and taking advantage of the education system. Tax payers should only pay for education when children would otherwise go without because their parents are so irresponsible or so unlucky as to be unable to afford it. All other parents should be paying state schools directly instead of leaving the hill to the taxpayer. Education is the responsibility of the parents not the state.

Fun fact: Michael Gove’s key political advisor when he was implementing all the poorly thought-out and rushed through changes that have led to today’s issues was none other than Dominic Cummings, Director of Vote Leave, played by Benedict Cumberbatch in Brexit: Uncivil War (well worth a watch).

It explains quite a lot.

All other parents should be paying state schools directly instead of leaving the hill to the taxpayer. Education is the responsibility of the parents not the state.

That would have a massive impact on social mobility and would further split society into the haves and have nots. The thought of poorly educated, racist 'One GCSE Gary' having any involvement in deciding to home 'educate' his children rather than pay fills me with horror. I am all in favour of some parents home educating but here are some parents who would decide to do it rather than pay who should not be allowed to home educate.

YANBU and it's not just education - you'd shit yourself it you took a closer look and both children's and adult services in local authorities - and local authorities generally - it's a slowly collapsing house of cards

Not sure that primary teachers do work longer hours than secondary - im a secondary teacher married to a primary school teacher and I'd say we are pretty even. I have a lot more extra curricular responsibilities. The recruitment and retention of teachers is a huge issue. As someone who mentors trainees, in the ladt few years the standard of acceptability has dropped. A trainee passed last year who wouldn't have in previous years. He passed because he trained in a shortage subject, but has not been able to secure a job. He should never have been awarded QTS.

I saw that last night.

They (Government) might be Educated but They're also thick at the same time. Oh not to mention ignorant. Now by that I mean theyre making cuts to save money. Yet its just going to cost them more in the long run. When these poor children grow up and can't get employment due to lack of Education. There's NP such thing as saving money. If it doesn't go on one thing. It'll go on another.
I also saw that loose slate on the roof as well. I know the area is cordoned off, but whose head will roll if heaven forbid.There's a gust of wind and it does hit one of the children

There is actual research to back the assertion that primary teachers work longer thatn secondary. Both report working long hours, but primary nicks it.

I should have clarified my point further with TAS - sorry.

Due to being in a school which IS extremely well funded we are able to employ two (yes two!) teaching assistants in all year groups in Reception and KS1 and one in each class in KS2. On top of that we have a pastoral and behaviour support person as well as two TAS that are free in the afternoons to do dedicated intervention work. We have actually found that this staffing level limits development regarding independence so have already begun to lose support staff through natural wastage. So in my context, I meant that a school like mine will obviously come under scrutiny regarding the expectation of losing SOME support staff. I agree that there is absolutely a crucial need for support staff but for us, it will a move towards less support staff rather than none. I absolutely have sympathies for schools who have had to massively cut their staffing.

"graphista, I am afraid the odious Dorries does not need votes. She has one of the largest majorities in parliament. Without outing myself, both DH and I taught one of her daughters in two different establsihments. She didn't really give a stuff about her own daughter's education (because she knew she could get her /give her a job) so she will hardly care about anyone else's. She refuses to visit my school because sixth formers were once 'nasty' to her. She lives 150 miles outside her constituency." That's appalling! What the hell kind of mother doesn't care about their child's education? And living so far from the constituency shouldn't be allowed!

Oliversmumsarmy sorry but I completely disagree. English & maths ARE basic necessities for almost all jobs, certainly professions. I'm 46 my parents are in their 70's basic qualifications in English & maths were almost always required for any decent job.

The short sightedness of the tories is not surprising if you accept they're not in politics to serve the public but to increase the coffers of themselves & their cronies. The impact on the future is of no interest to them because they and their kids who will be privately educated will be just fine thanks.

The government won't stop. I think they want to destroy the state education system. It will be a case of people not knowing what they had until it is gone.

All true graphista and yet they vote for her in droves. Remember, she is the one who went on 'I'm A Celebrity' even though the Whips told her she couldn't. Abhorrent.

Oliversmumsarmy sorry but I completely disagree. English & maths ARE basic necessities for almost all jobs, certainly professions. I'm 46 my parents are in their 70's basic qualifications in English & maths were almost always required for any decent job

So if your child is not able to pass either English or Maths GCSE despite being able to communicate perfectly well and have basic maths what is supposed to happen to them.

I disagree there wasn’t the focus on Maths and English years ago.

Dp has a Law degree despite not having an English O level.

I know a scientist who didn’t get an English qualification who is heading up research into a certain disease.
And many more who went to university even though they didn’t have either maths or English

Now they wouldn’t have qualified in anything because failiure to get the English exam puts a stop to any career.

Years ago it was done on number of O levels. Not on specific O levels.

However what I find grossly unfair is if for instance Ds quslified abroad then as a tradesman coming into this country no one would question whether he had a qualification in maths or English.

Stay in this country and he can’t qualify despite being top of the class on his course and having near perfect scores.

What would you suggest to those that don’t get an English or Maths GCSE?

I would really love to know because atm it looks like I will be sending 18 year old Ds to live in the US for 2 years.

All governments have messed with education not just this one.

O Levels aren't the same standard as GCSE.

@willbeatjanuaryblues I not sure you understand what we are talking about. On the face of it in our area we have new schools and building work going on. But this is a different budget to the school actually being funded on a day to day basis. Also non of the schools hear are failing schools they are actually very good even the one I work at which has serious budget issues and the primary my kids go to that has had to cut TA's (I know staff there) is a Ofsted outstanding school.

This is why I think a lot of parent's don't relise how bad things are. On the face of it things look ok schools are still achieving results. Thanks to dedicated staff, but that won't carry on forever things will break, at what point who knose but we are very close to the wire. When we can't afford glue sticks let alone chemicals for chemistry experiments.

"All true graphista and yet they vote for her in droves. Remember, she is the one who went on 'I'm A Celebrity' even though the Whips told her she couldn't. Abhorrent."

I remember that. She also appeared on a show about Mps supposedly trying to see what it's like living on benefits & cheated having £50 hidden in her bra! She also tried to say mps salary wasn't enough to live on given the demands of the job!

Ignorant, vile woman!

"So if your child is not able to pass either English or Maths GCSE despite being able to communicate perfectly well and have basic maths what is supposed to happen to them."

For starters I'd be concerned way before GCSE stage if they were struggling in either subject and try to find out why and get that addressed. I struggled with maths myself, I'm ok on arithmetic but not maths, so my parents took the attitude I just wasn't trying hard enough. Also the teacher was shit.

I "failed" GCSE getting a D, my school only taught to age 16 then so I went to college (was intending to go anyway for A levels) and retook maths, with an excellent teacher who understood

1 most of their students firmly believed they "couldn't" do maths

2 most of us didn't want to be there but understood (and our parents did too) that we needed minimum 3 GCSEs including maths & English to have a hope in hell of getting a decent job! And this was late 80's when the economy was doing a damn sight better than now!

3 that it was highly likely there were students with undx learning difficulties in the class

He was "old school" but very patient and thorough. He took it right back to basics and encouraged us to speak up if we didn't completely understand. I wish teachers like him could be cloned and put in EVERY school!

I got a B on the resit!

I've also got several friends who are dyslexic and a few who are dyscalculic. I realise now they were lucky but they were dx early high school and given support to take exams.

"Dp has a Law degree despite not having an English O level." Does he have cse in English? Because if not I'm genuinely shocked! In law effective & clear communication is crucial.

If you can afford to send DS to USA for 2 years can you not afford a tutor to give him a boost? Have you investigated if there's a possible disability at play? Not necessarily a LD, dyslexia etc but also visual or visual processing?

Or even what can happen (I think this is what happened with me with the maths) just the thought of doing that subject can make you so anxious your brain "freezes" and you can't take the info in.