To think secondary schools should not have unisex toilets?

[seriouslylong]

So my daughter started secondary school this year in a temporary sight and yesterday moved to the permanent sight. She came home and told me they only have unisex toilets in the school

I looked on a local Facebook page this morning and there was a parent on there asking for opinions.

I don't think boys and girls should have to share a toilet! They need their privacy at this age!

What are your thoughts? Also would be interested to hear if your children have unisex toilets at school?

userschmoozer

And if you read posts on here you will see that plenty of girls do that because they are scared to use single sex toilets because of bullying and intimidating behaviour - by other girls. So how do you address their concerns?

And yes, these designs do reduce incidents of bullying and vandalism in an area that was under supervised.

It seems that as long as girls are only at risk from bullying or intimidation by other then that's fine, according to posters on here. Their needs don't merit consideration.

Please give me your suggestions for eradicating the intimidation of girls by girls in single sex toilets.

Never once, in any discussion, did anyone mention gender or gender neutral or how unisex toilets would make things easier for trans gender pupils
To be fair Weetabix if this was ten years ago you should have been doing equality impact assessments on this change which would include looking at the impact on pupils considering gender reassignment as well as sex, religious beliefs etc.

Course when boys bully it's "just banter" and now the girls have no where to hide

And when girls bully it's...?

And where do girls go to hide from bullying girls?

I don't dispute that this layout may well reduce bullying, I am saying that bullying isn't the only consideration. It will certain help with the bullying of girls to accept boys/men into their safe spaces, and may well impact negatively on girls from cultures or faiths that require greater sex segregation (I don't have to agree with those ideologies to not want those girls to be further mariginalised) (and no, going to a single sex school may not always be an option, given that 'choice' doesn't really exist in some school areas).

yes, I'm still waiting to hear about those risk and equality impact assessments - radio silence so far.

Bullying problems should be dealt with them shoudnt they?
Yet once again girls used for behaviour management of the boys by not being allowed their own safe spave

To be fair Weetabix if this was ten years ago you should have been doing equality impact assessments on this change which would include looking at the impact on pupils considering gender reassignment as well as sex, religious beliefs etc.

It never got as far as needing impact statements because the cost implications ruled it out very quickly.

We started the investigation at the request of the pupil council who repeatedly complained about the state of the single sex toilets and we started to look at alternatives.

This open plan style was the favourite by a long way but was simply far too expensive and so was shelved.

I was answering the claim that the design was based on the wishes of paedophiles etc as stated earlier.

Bullying problems should be dealt with them shoudnt they?

How? Tell me?

How do you stop girls looking over cubicles and shaming other girls? Throwing things over toilet doors? Laughing at girls going in to use the toilets?

Incidents that are hard to prove, let alone to identify who is responsible.

It's difficult for staff to go into the toilets to supervise because of privacy/safeguarding concerns so open plan toilets deal with that concern extremely well.

Then have open plan single sex toikets then if you must...

Then have open plan single sex toikets then if you must...

Please explain to me the difference/benefits?

They are open plan meaning they open directly onto the corridor - where boys walk past. Why is that better or worse than a boy using the toilet before or after a girl?

I much prefer a toilet all on it's own to myself. My school girls toilets were awful and people hung out there being shitty. I never ever used them and only went to the loo during classes like art and science where the blocks had their own toilet.

its. not it's - stupid iphone is obsessed with rouge apostrophes.

I hate open plan toilets too fwiw.

Usually schools have some of a wall just no door so they aren't completely open.

Personally I think relying on humiliating children or makimg stuff unisex for behaviour management is ridiculous.

I am frequently amazed at how staff in a school can spot a red kickers spot on the bottom of a show from fifty paces get somehow miss kids being assulted/bullies.

If you think open plan toilets stop any thing you are mistaken.

Several times my dd has been shoved around in plain sight in a corridor. I don't believe people suddenly care now when it comes to a toilet

If kids wanna bully they will. Be it on the bus there, under the stair well, behind the lockers etc

Hence why it need a dealing witg properly as opposed to just removing one venue

So, how?

How do you make single sex toilets safe for all girls to use?

Why would you make them.unisex when it's well known fact that they make it even more unsafe for girls ?

That's a classic MRA response btw

"Girls bully too so why does it matter if boys are there"

The kids would probalby break the unisex systems and end up having an unspoken "rule" of which ones are for boys and which ones are girls. I suspect they will self-segregate...!

Ours school self-segregated, by unspoken rules, i.e there was no way year 7 would go to the "senior loos" and vice versa

That's just it though these toilets, designed like this aren't unsafe because they are easily supervised.

And no it's not a case of well girls bully too.

It's a case of the old style single sex toilets cause many many problems, not least deterring lots of students from using them. Your argument seems to be that all the problems are caused by boys and as long as boys are kept out then everything is fine. That is just not the case.

For school plays we all got changed in the communal part of the loos. Same of we had non sporting after school activities.

How well supervised are they? I remember all sorts of bullying going on in plain sight anyway.

That's not what I'm saying.

I said

All bullying should be dealt with

Its a fact that unisex toilets are more dangerous for girls

Boys and girls deserve privacy from.the opposite sex

Whereas using girls for the behaviour management of boys may have a positive outcome for the boys but as I said it's a well known fact that mixed sex is more dangerous for girls

The fact girls bully is a separate issue and should of course be dealt with. Just not in a way that compromises their privacy and dignity.

GerryblewuptheER

So these toilets aren't using girls to control boys behaviour they are addressing specific issues caused by single sex toilets generally being out of the sight of staff and providing a relatively unsupervised area for all sorts of poor behaviour from occurring.

These toilets are not more dangerous for girls. Maybe if you were talking about turning the old style single sex toilets, with gaps above and below the cubicles and with a large common area, into unisex toilets then I could see how possibly under certain circumstances there would be an increased risk.

But show me the evidence that these open plan designs increase the risk to girls. What evidence shows this?

And you keep saying deal with bullying - again how - and what about the privacy and dignity of girls being compromised on a daily basis by other girls? How shall we deal with that? You can't ban girls from using the girls toilets can you?

No you can't.

Any more than you can't stop boys from using the boys.

But neither should have their privacy and dignity removed by having to share facilities.

This argument that girls bully too is exactly the stuff used to justify why it's ok to make facilities unisex.

Then how do you maintain the dignity and privacy of girls using single sex toilets from other girls seeking to remove it?

And do please link me to the studies proving that these toilets are more unsafe for girls. I'm interested to read it.

The toilets pictured don't give anyone any privacy or dignity at all they are awful I would have rather had my face smashed against a wall in a regular toilet than have to use those .

Although the toilets at dds are not as open she still hates using them and doesn't pee Unless she really really has to as a result of the lay out

Bullies bully. Taking away a toilet wall
door will not change that hence why nore needs to be done to Deal with bullying..send the buggers home or stick them in isolation or something.

Having to share a toilet space with the opposite sex no matter how you try to sell it is humiliating.