To ask if eggs can ever be vegan

[GloryforGloves]

Before I discuss, let me share the definition of veganism from the Vegan Society website:

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

So, I understand fully that the egg industry is rubbish. Hens are confined, even if the box says free range; male chicks born as potential breeders are culled; old chickens are slaughtered. As a meat eater who buys into this, I get it’s shit. So I was wondering about alternatives.

Based on the definition above, I think it could be considered vegan to eat eggs from a rescue chicken who was keep in a happy, free range environment - a large back garden with a suitable setup. You are not breeding the animal for a specific purpose and I wouldn’t consider that exploitation as the chicken would lay regardless - in fact you are saving an animal that would have otherwise be slaughtered.
Instead you provide the chicken a comfortable, safe place to live and you enjoy it’s waste product.

I know some (most?) vegans say no animal product at all - but I think there has to be a reason for that stance - if it’s for ethics, then is this unethical?

What are your thoughts? Could rescued, well loved chicken eggs be considered vegan?

“So eating eggs from rescue chickens is surely compatible with those founding principles?”

The founding principle of veganism is to eat only plants and not animal products. Eating eggs is never going to be compatible.

That doesn’t mean that eggs can’t ever be a sound ethical choice, but they will never be vegan.

It’s a bit silly to try and argue otherwise.

Surely by extension, any animal dead from natural causes would be a 'waste product' and therefore fair game to eat?

I've always thought this and commented as such on various threads.

If you find a chicken that a fox has killed for fun and take it home for a meal, you have not been responsible for nor encouraged any taking of life or suffering.

If you pull up crops (as opposed to, say, eating already-fallen fruit) - or buy them from providers who have done it on your behalf - you are directly responsible for ending the life of a living organism and preferring your own needs and desires above its own. In addition, if pesticides have been used to kill competitors who also wanted to eat those crops.

Yes, we believe that plants don't feel pain in the way that an animal might, but it's still a value judgement: an omnivore will say that human food and nutrition desires/requirements take precedence over other living beings.

Vegetarians and vegans (who do it for ethical purposes rather than reasons of taste/their own health) set the bar lower to give animals the same right to life as humans, but still specifically exclude plants.

I'm a very happy meat-eater, but I buy my meat as ethically as I possibly can - from a local farm where they treat their animals humanely and kindly, letting them roam outside, before stunning and slaughtering them quickly when their time comes.

Obviously, many disagree strongly, but I think that a lot of people make ethical choices purely based on the kind of food and completely disregard the ethics and methods in producing that food.

@WardrobeInCrisis Cat have to eat meat. They will die without it.

I'm a vegan with 30 cats. They are not 'in captivity' and certainly wouldn't last long if left to roam in fields or whatever. They are all rescue cats. Without my help they would be dead and/or breeding out of control. I do everything I can, with the help of a charity, to reduce the number of cats being born in my area. I do not see any of this as being incompatible with my veganism.

I’m not vegan Juells, so I’m not giving vegans a bad name.

See if your keeping chickens and they lay them then they would go to waste so I don't see it as something not to do just because you happen to be vegan.

I only eat eggs in baking like cakes, pancakes etc but then I don't keep chickens so it's not something I need to worry about.

Even buying rescue hens is contentious because you're paying money to battery farmersfor them so contributing to the industry.

So, now they are already here, is it more ethical to not intervene and set them free into the wild, where a fox might kill them for sport? Genuine question.

Even buying rescue hens is contentious because you're paying money to battery farmersfor them so contributing to the industry.

The 50p per hen that is paid to the farmer is the same amount the farmer would get from the slaughter house. Anything can be argued about, but that really isn't going to encourage more hens to be bred.

Honestly, does it matter?

Life is too short for these sorts of questions. Eat what you want you eat, don't eat what you don't want to eat, and don't worry what other people are doing if it doesn't affect you.

Glory I think in 100 years it’ll be a common source of protein. It has a lot less environmental impact and we can’t sustain the western diet indefinitely, especially as the world becomes more overpopulated. It’s also likely we’ll look to other alternatives like insects for protein source. We might not be eating whole bugs but likely using them in the form of powdered down into flour to make foods like burgers.

The founding principle of veganism is to eat only plants and not animal products. Eating eggs is never going to be compatible

But WHY was that the founding principle saucyjack? I mean, it wasn't a whim was it? Or a personal challenge? There was a reason behind it. As far as I am aware, that reason was to do with concern for animals.

It's not silly at all to think getting back to the reasons for the creation of veganism is relevant here.

Life is too short for these sorts of questions.

Life is too short for watching mindless tv and working long hours for the sake of stuff. It’s not even too short for asking questions (unless you are a butterfly, perhaps).

No. They can be more ethical but there is no way that an animal product can be vegan.

Even buying rescue hens is contentious because you're paying money to battery farmersfor them so contributing to the industry.

No, you're rescuing chickens and giving them a chance at a normal life. Hens don't really lay unless they're fed stuff like layers mash.

No. They can be more ethical but there is no way that an animal product can be vegan.

But why? I keep asking this but no answer. What is the driving force for veganism? Why does someone decide to become veganism? I thought that more times than not it’s for the welfare of the animal - if this isn’t harming the animal then why is it so contentious? Or is there another reason to become vegan that explains this?

I wonder if it matters really. I mean the ethical question of eggs is an interesting one, but this thread shows there are moral reasons both for and against. I suppose you do whatever you feel best suits your morals and call yourself vegan because its easier than providing people with a list of what you do/don't eat. Maybe we need a new word for the political action of veganism as opposed to being vegan as a way of life.

“As far as I am aware, that reason was to do with concern for animals”

Yes obviously, but vegans express that by not eating any animal products. And that includes eggs- whether they’re from hens that are kept to high welfare standards, or not.

I’m not really sure what else there is to discuss TBH.

*“As far as I am aware, that reason was to do with concern for animals”

Yes obviously, but vegans express that by not eating any animal products. And that includes eggs- whether they’re from hens that are kept to high welfare standards, or not.*

Why? What purpose does it serve to not eat eggs in this particular sample?

it's so we can be lectured 😂

There are really two separate questions being answered on this thread, with obviously differing answers/

The first question is definition. If the definition of veganism is not eating any animal products, then of course no one who eats any sort of eggs can be vegan. And that is the question those simply answering 'no' have in mind.

If the question is reformed to 'would eating eggs from rescue hens be against ethical vegan principles?' then you can get individual, varied answers

Yes obviously, but vegans express that by not eating any animal products. And that includes eggs- whether they’re from hens that are kept to high welfare standards, or not

I think it comes down to whether one is a letter of the law person (you) or a spirit of the law person (me).

Chickens as we know them have been bred for food production. I think they're descended from jungle-dwelling birds who presumably would have laid far fewer eggs.

Universal veganism would mean that a large swathe of the animals we now know would cease to be kept, because there would be no economic sense in keeping them and they wouldn't survive in the wild. Pigs, cows, etc.

I don't think chicken eggs are vegan because vegans don't eat animal products. They're also not ethically sound because they come from animals whose very existence came about in order to fulfill a need in the human food system.

It’s not a law. It’s a lifestyle choice, and if you’re not following that lifestyle- then it’s a bit weird and pointless to claim that you are (other than for the kudos on Instagram).

Oops - typo - should have read 'can't be vegan'

One view I have heard is that it becomes a slippery slope, you start eating backyard eggs, then you don't mind the egg in cake when you're out etc where you don't know where the eggs are from and start supporting the industries you're against.

At the core it's not ok (for vegans following the ethics to the letter) because we are stealing something valuable and precious from another living thing.

Basically if you wouldn't want it to happen to you then you wouldn't want it to happen to any other living creature.

So we don't lay eggs so the comparison is harder to make but if you use milk as the example.

Would you like someone to milk you everyday (and have no choice in it) and take that milk from you every day even though technically it doesn't cause you physical harm and if for the other 99% your given a lovely life and looked after exceedingly well. No? Then under the vegan ethics it's not ok to do that to an animal.