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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask if you have a PhD?

131 replies

Morgan12 · 10/01/2019 13:31

Looking for advice basically. I'm seriously considering applying for a PhD which hopefully will be funded by the uni as I can't afford the tuition fees (based in Scotland).

I was just wondering if you have one then do you think it was worth the hard work? Did it help your career?

Ideally I'd like a career in academia so would be great to hear from people in this field. If you would be willing to disclose what you earn then please do, even a ballpark figure. What are your day to day duties like etc?

Just really any experiences of PhD study welcome. I need to make a decision asap.

OP posts:
quing · 10/01/2019 14:16

I think the only good reason to do a PhD, is because you want to do research. If you'll regret it if you don't become an academic, it's probably not a good choice - very few people become academics. If you treat it as an opportunity to spend a few years researching something you're really interested in, work alongside passionate people, learn lots of skills, etc, then you'll probably end up far happier.

I found my PhD easier than my BSc to be honest. Stressful, miserable, boring, difficult at times, but overall much easier. With hindsight, I wish I'd challenged myself more with some of the projects I did during it, but I didn't have the confidence at the start.
I'm only a year post-PhD now so can't comment on long-term career usefulness. But mostly I did it because I wanted to do it, not as a particular step up. Currently I'm a post doc, so I wouldn't have got that job without it.

Most universities publish their pay scales I think, so you can get an idea of salaries. You tend to go up a point on the payscale each year.

If you do go for it, my most important bit of advice, is find someone good and stick to them like glue. Ask other students/staff what they're like to work with, and ex-staff/students if you can find them.
A lot of my friends started PhDs, maybe half finished them. The biggest difference between those that had good experiences and those that didn't, was their supervisor. Far more important IMO than the details of the project.

FaFoutis · 10/01/2019 14:16

I have a PhD. I didn't find it particularly hard work, I was doing something I enjoyed - I still love research and writing. The worst bit was dealing with my supervisor. Make sure you like yours.
I'm a lecturer, but got pregnant in my last year of PhD so was never able to manage my career in a way that would have got me up the ladder. You need a long term plan and plenty of time in order to do this. Most academics in secure positions are men with wives who do all the home stuff. There are an army of female lecturers on rolling short term contracts, like me.

RJnomore1 · 10/01/2019 14:17

Should say I'm in Scotland too, I also associate lecture already with my niche MSc but this would allow me to lecture in my area full time if I wanted to although I currently earn more in public sector management than I would academia...it's all a balancing act really.

MartaHallard · 10/01/2019 14:18

Has anyone done a PhD just because they were interested in a topic or wanted to do the work for the sake of the work?

More or less. I love research - I'm a historian - I'd done an MA and thought I was capable of more. I was fortunately in the position of having no dependents or family responsibilities, so I was able to please myself.

It didn't lead me to a well paid career, but did open up opportunities that I wouldn't otherwise have had, and I have established a very tiny niche in my own field. I'm still building on things I learned and skills I acquired.

But the main thing is the huge sense of achievement, the satisfaction of being able to call yourself 'Doctor'. If I hadn't done it I think there'd always have been a feeling that I hadn't achieved all that I could have.

FaFoutis · 10/01/2019 14:18

how many of the (mainly) men that worked there were arrogant mysogynists

That was my experience too.

LadyGregorysToothbrush · 10/01/2019 14:19

It's designed to work around full time work as well

You can’t do a full time PhD and full time work at the same time. Part-time, yes (but will still be v demanding).

amusedbush · 10/01/2019 14:19

I am currently doing my MSc online (via brick university) and plan to continue with a doctorate when I finish next year. I'm an administrator in a (different) university and my work offer a fully funded DBA programme for staff. I don't particularly want to work in academia but my BA and MSc are both in business and I really enjoy it, so the DBA would just be for fun... if you can call it that Grin

I also really, really want to have the title of Dr Grin

BikeRunSki · 10/01/2019 14:20

As pp, yes I do, but it hasn’t belied my subsequent non-academic career, although it it broadly in the same field.
My MSc however, has been vital and invaluable.

CarolineTheChemist · 10/01/2019 14:20

I also agree with the others who have said that academia is extremely competitive.
I have two female friends from my PhD days and we've all ended up in v different place. One left academia immediately after the PhD to work as a technical author for chemistry software. She found that boring after 2 years then got a postdoc position and MBA course in the US. After that contract expired (3yrs) she got another one in Germany and has since been itching to come back to the UK, but is struggling as her research is so niche. She finds academia hard as there is a lot of competing for kudos and money. She earns the least out of all of us. Around 40k Euros.

The other did a 2yr postdoc in NYC, followed by another 2yr postdoc at Cambridge before deciding to leave academia as it wasnt going anywhere. She wanted to be an editor and she now works in the comms at a big hospital, earns a good wage around £45k and works part time as she has a family now.

I left and went straight to the world of scientific r&d data management. After a few years I moved to finance data management so not related to science at all. I earn the most now, because finance pays well - before my move our 3 salaries were always very similar despite our different paths.

MerlinsBeard87 · 10/01/2019 14:21

Same story as @MartaHallard above. I have a history PhD because I loved the subject. It helped me get my dream job in heritage but I'm unlikely to ever be well paid in this sector. I glow with pride whenever I get a letter addressed Dr

RandomObject · 10/01/2019 14:21

For academia, it is essential.

It was a long slog, full of stress and experiments not working, hoops to be jumped through. I always envy those who got to enjoy it. They say that the actual work done in a science PhD, if it all worked the first time, would take 3 months not 3 years, that's how repetitive and failure-prone it is.

You would need a good supervisor, it makes all the difference.

My current job didn't require a PhD but it helped. I earn a bit over 40k and I'm in my late twenties (graduated age 24 - bear that in mind for earnings, you will be several years behind your peers on the career ladder).

LaurieMarlow · 10/01/2019 14:23

I did one in arts.

For me it categorically was not worth it.

It's hard to describe the workload and the toil it can take on your physical, mental and emotional health (not to mention the impact on your loved ones). The last two years were total shit.

By the end, I'd have preferred to stick pins in my eyes than stay in academia (and it was 2008 and there were no jobs anyway).

I built a successful career elsewhere and am v well remunerated and very happy in it. The PhD probably does make my cv stand out, but I can think of a hundred cheaper and easier ways to have done that.

Most of those who stayed in academia are still lurching from one post doc to another 10 years later. Only a couple of my cohort 'made it' to a permanent job. They were both very, very strong scholars, prepared to move anywhere and got lucky by being in the right place at the right time. Even so, the money isn't anything special.

My advice is only do it if you have a clear plan around what you want, can't achieve that without a PhD, and are willing to prioritise that plan above everything else in your life.

BobbinThreadbare123 · 10/01/2019 14:23

I do. Physical sciences. I had three years fully funded by a research council. I did enjoy most of it and it has been useful to me. I did have a slog writing up, as I was working and suffering various personal issues at the time. I like using the title Dr as well; it has been very useful to gender neutralise on a number of occasions!

RJnomore1 · 10/01/2019 14:25

@LadyGregorysToothbrush

I was referring to professional doctorates if you read again, which are designed for people already in employment but who wish to study/research and doctoral level in their field.

LadyGregorysToothbrush · 10/01/2019 14:27

Whoops, apologies RJ

RJnomore1 · 10/01/2019 14:27

No problem!

Boswelland · 10/01/2019 14:28

I'd love to do one! Although I've been applying for the last three years to funded PhDs and sadly not had any luck (in environmental/biological fields). Not really sure where I'm going wrong but that's another thread..

It's hugely competitive, but you may as well apply if it interests you. Nothing ventured, nothing gained etc.

FiendinFelineForm · 10/01/2019 14:32

If it's not sciences PhD or otherwise linked to an active industry, I think you're right to be wary.

Friend of mine has a PhD in history. She works in a supermarket, because she needed regular income after years of living on few teaching/marking weeks pay (£200 a month - not a typo.) She managed to hang on about 5 years, applying for jobs all over the world, got a grant or two, presented at a big conferences, convened undergrad courses, but then it dried up and she needed reliable money so had to give up on academia.

Friend used to say Funded PhDs require you to teach seminars on undergrad courses. This means that there are practically no teaching positions in university for post-docs. Friend was well liked in her department, so was given as many extra teaching hours (after PhD students had been allocated hours) as could be done after she graduated.

Morgan12 · 10/01/2019 14:36

Thanks for the replies everyone. Its good to get some insight.

I think I may aswell apply and see what happens. If it's meant to be then it's meant to me.

OP posts:
CustardOmlet · 10/01/2019 14:37

I am working through a masters and have a topic in mind for a PhD if I survive this current work! Mine has the potential to further my carer in academia, however my driving motivation is to improve peoples lives, so if I do that I will have got what I wanted!

BaconMaker · 10/01/2019 14:40

how many of the (mainly) men that worked there were arrogant mysogynists

I did a PhD in a STEM subject and this wasn't true of any of them I worked with, there was also some other women (I would say 20%). My Husband's PhD was in a slightly different scientific field and the working atmosphere was definitely more aggressive but I never found anyone to be misogynistic.

The worst I experienced was when working in American when I found one or two of the older male professors tried to be a little overly fatherly with me, and less critical of my talks than I feel they would have been had I been male which I disliked.

LaurieMarlow · 10/01/2019 14:46

I wouldn't say I found it misogynistic.

However, what got me was the self interested politics of it all. I (naively and bizarrely) thought it would be above all that. What a total fool I was.

I'm now in the private sector in an industry that many would see as totally cut through and my colleagues are infinitely kinder and more reasonable than they were in academia.

SergeantPfeffer · 10/01/2019 14:47

I witnessed serious sexual harassment in several of the institutions I worked in- misogyny is alive and kicking in the life sciences Angry

HarryTheSteppenwolf · 10/01/2019 14:58

If you want a career in academia then you need a PhD. Otherwise you can't really go much further than associate teaching fellow in many institutions. No department I've ever worked in would employ someone without a PhD as a lecturer. It's a bit different in social sciences and humanities, and probably even more so in creative arts, and professional courses (nursing, etc.) will put a greater priority on professional accreditation than academic qualifications, but there seems to be a move in the direction of most academics' being required to have PhDs.

I finished mine in 1991 (medical sciences field) and wanted to try to get into publishing or industrial research after that. Ended up in universities, though, and am still in HE 27 years later, albeit in a teaching & management role with no lab research for the past 8 years or so. Now a senior lecturer with salary in the upper fifties but that's obviously with many years' experience. On the standard pay scale (outside London) you'd expect a minimum of £32,236 in an academic role once you've passed probation (usually 3 years).

I did my PhD part-time while working as a research technician then research assistant so that the institution would pay my tuition fees and a salary. I couldn't have done it on any other basis, and I think it's immoral to expect students to fund themselves through PhDs if their work contributes to the institution's research output and grant income (although I'm not sufficiently senior to be able to do anything to stop it). I had a relatively easy time of it, as I was in a well funded group with a very eminent supervisor. This meant I didn't have to panic about funding running out, as he would always be able to find money for another year. I did have to do a lot of extra jobs around the lab, though, including ordering supplies and maintaining equipment, and had to support a string of visiting researchers from other countries. When I say "relatively easy", though, I mean relative to people who live in constant fear of their funding running out before they've finished. It was very hard work for 5½ years, and I considered giving up several times. But you have to get used to this. I don't believe most academics work as hard as they say they do (the fact they have so much time to complain about how hard they have to work suggests they don't) but there is an awful lot to be done all the time and there are particular times of year when you wake up in the morning - or sometimes in the middle of the night - and can't believe it's possible for you to get everything done by when it's needed.

As others have stated, research is almost always 80% frustration and 20% revelation. It can seem like you take forever to get things working properly, validated, calibrated, etc., and then have a fairly short period in which to generate useful data. And then you have to write it up, which quite a lot of PhD students really, really struggle with. This is partly because they can't write - it's fairly easy to get a good bachelor's degree in a science subject without being able to write coherently - but more because they don't really understand why they've done the work they've done. As an examiner I've made quite a few PhD students spend several months rewriting their theses because their answer to many questions in the viva about why they did something a particular way was "because my supervisor told me to." You're supposed to be proving you are capable of becoming an independent researcher, so this is never an acceptable answer. Even if you did do it because your supervisor told you to, you should understand why your supervisor told you to.

FaFoutis · 10/01/2019 14:59

There's plenty of it in history departments too.

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