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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be surprised that some friends are buying extra food because of Brexit?

999 replies

abacucat · 07/01/2019 11:53

I suspect that specific foods may get be in short supply for a short period of time, but there will still be plenty of food in the shops. It is not going to be Armageddon. So this seemed an over reaction to me. Or am I going to be that person in the disaster movie who is laughing saying everyone is over reacting, who ends up dead when the disaster finally hits?

OP posts:
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Cookit · 08/01/2019 07:03

Those due with babies - is breastfeeding an option? Honestly I would be seriously thinking about how to make BF work. Same with cloth nappies. It's better to be prepared for the worst.

That’s a point. I am due after Brexit too. I’m going to BF so I’m not worried about milk but I think I will stock up on cloth nappies and then I don’t have anything to worry about (and if older one isn’t out of nappies by then tough, as he needs to be!)

SalrycLuxx · 08/01/2019 07:13

I would expect they would ration formula (like when they’ve had shortages before) and it would be a priority to import.

Sassenach85 · 08/01/2019 07:37

Like many women, I have private and personal reasons for wishing to avoid breastfeeding. However, if our government indicated a genuine concern over formula availability of course the survival and needs of my baby trumps any of my own issues. The thing is the govt haven't and wouldn't and won't be honest so in that respect whether it's formula or food or nappies we are all having to guess what's best?? What an absolute pallava! Thanks to PP I will have a look at that link

Mistigri · 08/01/2019 07:42

the UK (as far as I can tell!) is self-sufficient in milk production.

It took me 1 minute on google to find an LSE publication from July 2018 which says the opposite:

"At 16%, the UK has second largest dairy trade deficit in the world, meaning it heavily relies on imports. The overwhelming majority (98%) of UK dairy imports are of EU origin"

The report is here: www.lse.ac.uk/business-and-consultancy/consulting/assets/documents/the-impact-of-brexit-on-the-uk-dairy-sector.pdf

I can believe that the UK is largely self-sufficient in pasteurised milk (because of the short shelf life) but milk is used in many other products, and you can't use the same milk twice.

That's without even getting into the problem of cross border dairy trade in Ireland (milk routinely crosses the border at least twice between cow and customer).

SalrycLuxx · 08/01/2019 07:45

I wouldn’t worry too much re: formula. It will get rationed, and I doubt we’re headed for a full scale SHTF scenario, so you shouldn’t need to use alternatives. You also don’t need the really expensive ‘gold’ stuff either - that’s just branding.

Should we actually suffer the collapse of civilisation as we know it Hmm we can be assured that so long as babies get some sort of fatty milk they will be ok. I know someone whose husband was given watered down condensed milk out of tins!

cloudtree · 08/01/2019 07:48

Plus, as you've said, the decision you've made not to breastfeed is a choice. And so if it comes to it you could always change that decision and breastfeed (subject to being able to).

TheCumbrian · 08/01/2019 09:04

There is a brand of formula called Kendamil made in the UK using British milk but it's only really available in shops (Booths/Morrison's/Sainsburys) the North West at the moment

www.kendamil.com/our-story/

RedToothBrush · 08/01/2019 09:12

Although 48% of all our food is imported the UK (as far as I can tell!) is self-sufficient in milk production. BUT we don't make the plastic bottles it goes in.

Gggaaaaahhhhh!

Imagine being able to check this or at least read the thread and who is saying we are no self sufficient! You don't even have to Google. I'd already done that. The LSE study was commissioned by Arla. And thus pretty reputable.

It's amazing to see people who clearly have 'had enough of experts'.

The same people who in 2007 were saying 'well Northern Rock wouldn't lend me all that money for my mortgage if there was a problem'. And DH and I just looked at each other in disbelief.

Re: breastfeeding / formula, I'd definitely have a plan for both. Though I agree that formula will be a priority but that personally wouldn't have reassured me and I'd still have a large supply stocked up (and would food bank it, if I didn't need it).

DS is four and still needs a sizeable amount of calcium in his diet. A huge spike in prices would affect certain groups in a really bad way with health consequences. I'm conscious of how expensive cheese is in Iceland and Finland. And they don't have tariff barriers, just low production domestically and high transportation costs.

I believe one of the things most likely to be shoplifted is already blocks of cheese.

Yes. Cheese.

cloudtree · 08/01/2019 09:30

BBC saying a new website informing consumers and businesses what to do in the event of a no deal brexit is to go live on Tuesday..

Watch the panic start. I'd recommend a stock up before then..

FayFortune · 08/01/2019 09:31

Cheese is relatively expensive in Canada. I was told it was government policies which support farmers in a political swing area. But the person I knew would buy cheese in the States when they could!

RedToothBrush · 08/01/2019 09:38

In the longer term it will be great for diary farmers and the price should settle down. And we should become self sufficient. But not for several years because of the time it would take to set up to be self sufficient.

RegularShowRules · 08/01/2019 09:43

If there is going to be a website advising people how to prepare for Brexit on the 15th that's the sane date the MPs are voting whether they accept a deal or not.
Wouldn't it have been better to await the outcome of the vote (and chaos after either way) as a no deal would mean much more preparation than a deal.

Havanananana · 08/01/2019 09:46

understanding food supply and all the ins and outs of it is not within most people's grasp or interest!

The UK has not been self-sufficient in food for the last 200 years. The industrial revolution meant that workers could earn more by moving to the towns and working in factories, so agriculture began to be less important. At the same time, the British colonies were geared up to provide the mother country with food - wheat from Canada, lamb from New Zealand, fruit from Africa etc.

The big problem with this was emphasised during WW2, when the food could not get through. Despite almost every square inch of land being turned over to agriculture, including public parks, rationing had to be imposed to ensure than everyone received the bare minimum to eat. One egg per person per week, a jar of jam every two months, 2oz of butter, 2oz of tea a week, meat to the equivalent of two lamb chops a week etc. What looks today like the daily consumption for an adult had to last a whole week.

Over the last 70 years, the UK economy has become ever more integrated with that of the rest of the world, but most notably with Europe - which is of course only 22 miles away. Modern logistics mean that supermarkets only have space to stock 1-2 days worth of fresh food (as it can be replenished daily if necessary), 3-4 days of semi-fresh goods (e.g. a delivery of 50 cases of frozen pizzas twice a week) and about 10 days worth of other foods (pasta, rice etc). Under normal conditions, a typical supermarket has sufficient stock to serve its customers for about 5 days before running out.

When people buy additional food - e.g. at Christmas and New Year - the supermarkets struggle to keep everyone supplied despite ordering extra stocks, so fresh products in particular run out far quicker. As this is foreseeable, new stock is already on the way to the shops in time for the first opening day - e.g. after Christmas.

The problem with even a 'soft' Brexit is that this supply chain will be disrupted, so that various goods will be in short supply or even become unavailable. If a truck-load of Spanish fruit or French yoghurts is delayed for 5 days, the goods risk going off before they can be delivered. The result is that the shops will have less stock - and if shoppers then panic-buy (having spotted the empty shelves) the supermarkets will empty in a matter of hours - just as they do at Christmas.

A hard Brexit would create huge problems. The hauliers predict that as little as 20% of lorries will be able to cross the Channel. Instead of 10,000 lorries a day, only 2,000 might get through. If a third of these lorries are carrying food, or food ingredients, or packaging materials, then instead of over 3,000 lorries getting through, only 600 might get through.

Food would then have to be rationed by:

  • The supermarkets limiting the amount that people can purchase (good luck to the cashiers and security guys when they try to enforce this);
  • Goods become rationed by price - as the demand increases, prices go up and only those who can afford to buy can do so;
  • Formal rationing - as in WW2 - which requires a Census to determine who is eligible for food rations, and a huge system in order to produce, distribute and administer the rationing system of ration books, stamps, smart cards etc. and which would be impossible to implement by 30th March.
FayFortune · 08/01/2019 09:56

If you live in areas where it usually snows you know this already about the shops and many people have a winter cupboard. For me this spring will just became extension of that to keep me in white coffee. Having said that having lived through dock strikes years ago I'm sure we can adapt ok so no panic here.

EssentialHummus · 08/01/2019 10:09

Having DD (now 17 months) has made me more tuned in to things like this. Not just Brexit, but weather-related supply disruption, or even a bad case of norovirus/similar that means we're unable to leave home for days. We have a week's worth of long-life food that we'd eat anyway - I actually need to pull it out and re-assess, since it was bought in November. We have family abroad, so I suppose that faced with any longer-term disruption we'd try to leave the country, but that obviously presupposes that air/ferry travel is viable.

I hope that come April someone will call up this thread and laugh at all of us for being so stupid as to think that food shortages could even be a remote possibility, but I simply haven't seen anything in the current government to suggest the degree of forward-planning needed.

Havanananana · 08/01/2019 10:17

Having said that having lived through dock strikes years ago I'm sure we can adapt ok so no panic here.

Presumably you mean the dock strikes of the 1970s.

In July 1970, the government declared a state of emergency and ordered 36,000 troops to be on standby to alleviate the problems caused by the dockers striking. Food prices soared during the strike, the dockers agreed to unload perishable goods and the strike ended after two weeks, so things got back to normal fairly quickly.

In contrast, the problems caused by Brexit have no foreseeable end - Brexit means Brexit, as May keeps saying. It could take years for things to return to normal - post-WW2, rationing continued until 1954; 9 years after the war ended.

Sassenach85 · 08/01/2019 10:18

Currently arguing with DH who doesn't even want to talk about Brexit! But I'm Mum round here and I KNOW the responsibility is on my shoulders because nobody I know is even open to the discussion of what if .... it's pretty stressful when you don't know who is wrong. Me or them? Confused

Amortentia · 08/01/2019 10:21

We live on an island I’m really struck by how little the general population understand how important a freely moving transport network is to ensuring a consistent flow of goods reach them. Any kind of interruption creates a knock on effect, even just short term extreme weather is a problem for us.

But what concerns me most is that most people seem to think Brexit is something that will happen over a number of weeks, then everything will return to some level of normality. If we leave with no deal then returning to some level of order so that goods can move through the chain at a normal speed could take a very long time to fix.

Sassenach85 · 08/01/2019 10:25

This is true but the fact is, people of my generation really have never had to consider it before. Nobody taught me about it at school, I had no interest in it as an academic. I am aware it is a modern ignorance but it is what it is. My current concerns don't seem important or valid to others as they just naively assume "it will be fine"! It's frustrating to say the least being left in limbo like this. Apart from having extra food in, if this is possibly a long term problem, what else should the typical family be doing?

Mookatron · 08/01/2019 10:28

My own feeling is that this whole situation feels like it has nothing to do with me - not what I voted for, not what I want, government not listening to anyone except privileged party voices, people somehow convincing TM that another vote is undemocratic Hmm - and yet it will affect me personally and my children for years to come. Preparing myself by stocking up is a very tiny way in which I can 'take back control' of my own life. I don't give a shit if someone else thinks it's ridiculous and if it causes panic BEFORE the damage is actually done, well, bloody great, maybe we won't do the damage.

Havanananana · 08/01/2019 10:30

But what concerns me most is that most people seem to think Brexit is something that will happen over a number of weeks, then everything will return to some level of normality. If we leave with no deal then returning to some level of order so that goods can move through the chain at a normal speed could take a very long time to fix.

Exactly this. There seems to be an assumption amongst sections of the public and amongst some politicians that if the UK leaves the EU on 29th March, there will be a week or two of disruption and then everything will return to normal.

This assumption is nonsense. Stockpiling food and medicines (whether done by governments, retailers or individuals) is only a short-term measure. Once the stockpile has been used up, then what? If supplies continue to be disrupted, a six-week stockpile only moves the run-out day from 29th March to mid-May - by which time there will be a state of emergency (see 1970 dock strike referenced above) and quite possibly civil unrest.

glamorousgrandmother · 08/01/2019 10:34

There were shortages of toilet rolls, sugar and potatoes in the 70s as I remember - all for different reasons.

Lifecanbeabeach2 · 08/01/2019 10:39

The milk formula and people saying you don’t need the branded stuff that wasn’t why I asked neonate LCP is milk for medical needs ( my daughter has intestinal failure ) which requires IV nutrition ( TPN ) but at age 5 had neocate LCP has newborn neocate feeds to protect her liver from failure.

Newdadofgirl · 08/01/2019 10:44

I'm sure that everything will be ok. But in case its not, I have stockpiled enough baby formula and baby food for 2 months. Supermarkets around my area seem to have difficulty in keeping baby food on the shelves at the best of times! Been trying to buy extra bits of adult food too, tins and those fried potato packets from Lidl. Sure it will be a waste of time, but a few extra bits here and there won't do any harm.

BrexitDestruction · 08/01/2019 10:53

A thread here about the effects of any extra checks needed at customs, for those who are interested. Extra checks talking just 70 seconds lead to queues of 6 days. 80 seconds = no recovery.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1082390612517769222.html or I believe it's also in the ft.

I believe one of the plans is to just wave through all the lorries. That seems safe. Great we will be taking back control of our borders, eh?

This applies once we are out of the transition period or if we crash out without a deal. Yes, I would definitely be stockpiling.