Writing to Debenhams about men's changing room and no "women's"

[MummaMooMoo]

First time poster, long time reader! Fully prepared to be told I am being at least petty even if not unreasonable, but it's really irked me so after my daughter and I took a trip to Debenhams the other day, I emailed them. Here is the current thread:

Me::
Good afternoon,

I have visited your XlocationX store today, and have a concern.

I was with my daughter and we (specifically, she) needed to use the changing room. The floor we were on had no changing room I could see signposted, and the floor below predominantly sold men's clothes, and had a men's changing room, according to the sign. We went down another floor to access the ladies changing room, but there wasn't one. There was simply a "changing room". I am writing to request an explanation as to why men have exclusive use of a changing room despite women posing no threat to them, whilst women have no exclusive use, at all.

I would like to make it clear that my 6 year old pointed out to me the injustice of this. Discrimination isn't only visible to those who are looking for it. What do you suggest I tell her about why Debenhams treats it's male customers with greater regard than its female customers? This is a question for you as a company, not me as a parent.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

----them:

Dear XnameX,

Thank you for your email.

I am sorry the service you received in our XlocationX store did not meet your expectations. I am glad you brought this to our attention so we can resolve this for you.

I have called the store and spoken to XnameX today and arranged for them to contact you within 24 hours to resolve your query.

I appreciate your patience regarding this.

Kind regards,

XnameX
Debenhams Customer Services

----me:
Dear XnameX

Thank you for your response, though I would note that the service I received was excellent from the staff and my issue is with the changing room signage and exclusivity. However, I look forward to hearing from the store.

Can you confirm whether the preferential provision for a "men's changing room" but no women's is standard throughout Debenhams stores? I am not happy for a store to answer for themselves unless this is an isolated case, as the issue would then Debenhams policy, not [redacted] store.

If this is standard practice throughout stores or if you are not able to tell me whether it is, please forward my original e-mail on to relevant teams within Head Office, to address the matter.

Regards,

---

Thanks, ladies! ps no criticism on my letter-writing, I'm long past my GCSE English glory days

This post was edited by MNHQ to remove identifying information

Yanbu, interested to read the store’s response.

Did you check if there was a women’s changing room anywhere before you fired off that email?

I am also interested to see the outcome of this

I used to work for them and all the stores I worked in had both mens and women's changing rooms.

Are you 100% sure there was no womens one available?

Sorry! Should have been clear about that. Yes, I know the store well and there are no other changing rooms. The one situated with the ladies clothes, is the "unspecified" one. The only other is marked for men

Did the floor where you found the changing room sell predominately women's clothes? If so, I would imagine it was the women's changing room.

How long has it been that way? Since the 80's? 90's?

It's disgusting.

The point is she shouldn’t need to infer. If it isn’t clearly signposted, anyone could exploit that.

Well done Op.

It seems a historical inaccuracy and a legacy of an outdated world we no longer recognise. You made your point well and let’s hope they address it, not much more to be said.

I would point out that if your intention was to blank out the store name the latter reference to [redacted] is somewhat of a giveaway

Hahah, I tried so hard and noticed seconds before your post! Ah well, I don't live there so no risk to me and if it means more people going in and mentioning it, that doesn't seem so bad!

My DD wrote to our local swimming baths about something similar. There is a unisex changing area with cubicles and on the other side of the pool two group changing areas - one for males and the other for females, the doors are adjacent to each other but there was a sign on the men's door which said strictly male only.
DD complained about the inequality, she didn't get a reply but the sign has now been removed.

@MummaMooMoo

I really wouldn’t worry, I personally would have included it in the first place, you were simply stating fact - if they or anyone else don’t like it then it’s up to them to change it.

Also, appreciate your tip of the hat to the staff, they shouldn’t get dragged into this and you were explicitly clear that they treated you impeccably - as I said, a good point well made

Thank you for taking the time to do this, sincerely. We need to keep challenging the changes that threaten us.

Well done you on challenging this.

I'm so pleased you did this. Men are awful etc.

"why men have exclusive use of a changing room despite women posing no threat to them"

Not seeking to excuse them in any way, and it really should be addressed and properly clarified/signposted, but could it originally have been done that way with the (very misguided) intention to actually keep women safer and/or to limit what men can do? i.e. "No, Sir - you may not come in here with your non-existent daughter or wife, men are only allowed to enter the men's fitting rooms on the other floor, which are clearly marked"; whereas women accompanying their older sons or husbands to the men's fitting rooms wouldn't be challenged in the same way by being ordered not to stray anywhere other than the labelled 'women's' ones?

By the looks of it, it's not uncommon for big clothing department stores (especially the more 'traditional', longer-established ones) to patronisingly to both sexes treat themselves as effectively women's stores which also happen to have a small men's section - the opposite of the (equally) old relic that a doctor or police officer (for example) would always be assumed to be a man, unless clearly labelled as a 'lady doctor' or 'WPC'.

In my old home city (quite a number of years ago, granted), M&S opened up a much smaller nearby 'Men's store' but never re-designated the original one as 'Women's, Kids, Food and Homewares' - it was just 'M&S' and 'M&S Men's', which, to be fair, could be construed as offensive both to women ('they don't get their own designated shop specifically tailored to them and get lumped in with all the other departments') and to men ('the main store isn't for you and we don't want you getting in the way of the default female customers, so you're only allowed in this specific little store - and let's just hope you don't want to buy food, homewares or clothes for your kids').

I'm sure I'm over-thinking it and they definitely need to get it dealt with ASAP (how hard can it be to have clearly-labelled fitting rooms for each sex?) - that still doesn't completely clear things up, though, in the case of older offspring who want/need to be accompanied by their different-sex parent.

Which store was it? I wonder if they’re all like it?

Update:: I have just done a search online, and I really hope I haven't found the root of the problem, but worry that I have. June last year, someone who "identifies as a woman" was refused entry to a women's changing room at Debenhams, and was very publicly unhappy about it::

A Debenhams Spokesperson said “We are sorry for any distress caused to the customer. Debenhams changing rooms are not gender specific and we welcome customers to use a fitting room of their choice. We are currently investigating the incident as a matter of urgency.”

I'd say there's a good chance that the sign for the ladies (and of course, only the ladies) came down around then. Sigh.

Debenhams changing rooms are not gender specific but they are sex-specific.

There we go, fixed it for them.

Following, this is a small thing but they all add up.

What will actually happen is that the store will remove the word "men's" from the Male changing room.

Yadnbu

Debenhams changing rooms are not gender specific but they are sex-specific.

There we go, fixed it for them.

Yes. A great deal of the current confusion in all spheres could be instantly erased at a stroke by just making it clear that, socially, you're free to identify as whatever and whoever you want, but when it comes to official records and policies, it's not judgemental at all, but it's simply based purely on your biological sex.

but when it comes to official records and policies, it's not judgemental at all, but it's simply based purely on your biological sex.

But how would that help out the Debenhams changing room issue we're talking about - that's not to do with official records or policies. Debenhams can organise their changing rooms however they wish. All we can do is vote with our feet.

I was so worried that trans / anti-men threads were dying out.

I'm delighted that your daughter is being raised to recognise the horror of whatever your issue with changing rooms is. She's certain to get to Soton and become SU President. A strong future.

Thanks for this!