Both kids suicidal

[NewYearHell]

Went into Christmas time feeling quite happy and optimistic. Kids seem to be in good fettle, had 2 weeks leave lined up including time away, after which I'll return to a job I love.

A week later I'm wondering what on earth happened. Learned that the 11yo has been self harming, and had to phone police to intervene when the 16yo locked herself in her room with knife, pills and access to roof.

(Before they arrived, 6hrs later, she went to bed. Doesn't believe they actually came and has carried on as if nothing happened)

Since then I've taken youngest to GP and had a referral to a mental health service (waiting on appt).

Haven't made much progress with the teenager. In the past she has engaged in counselling with a charity that works with family violence victims though they are currently closed. To be honest it's scary living with her.
She says she hates me and her sister and she will kill herself if I don't let her move out.
I've explained that I understand it's tough living with parents but that I don't have any other options for her other than if she leaves school, gets a job and moves to her own place. I've asked her to think about changes that could improve her life but I must admit I'm sceptical as I feel she is being manipulative.

I have tried very hard to give the children good lives. We have a nice home and they attend "good" schools. I encourage them to explore interests and try to listen to everything they want to talk about. The younger one helps put around the house but the older one is very reluctant and mostly looks at her phone. I'm pretty sure she stays up late online as a matter of habit.

The older one does have several long term friends, the younger one only has a couple.
Both of them say they feel sad expressed that their because their dad left, I'm mean and no one likes them. It's true that their dad left and it's probably true that I'm a mean mum. The no one liking them thing is a bit far fetched.

I feel quite sure that what they're doing online is contributing to their mental distress. I monitor the younger one's online activity very closely but the older one pretty much does whatever she likes. Point blank refuses to follow house rules re net use.

I feel very sad that the children are so unhappy, and also very frustrated with the older one who is unrelentingly negative and often violent. I feel ill equipped to cope with her any longer and have been wondering if anyone else has been in this situation and how they resolved it.

Damn I didn't mean to out this in aibu argh
Sorry

*put

Sorry you haven’t had any replies.
Perhaps it’s a bit much for people to take in.
It certainly sounds unbelievable.
Sorry I don’t have any advice

It certainly sounds unbelievable.

Then you dont have teens, or if you do then you dont listen to them.

@NewYearHell

Having similar issues myself I can only say that they do this to us because they know we love them. They know we wont leave. They know that we will always be there for them.

In my town there is a counselling service that they can be referred to by school, it really helped my lot after my ex buggered off. I would speak to school and see what they say. Ime just knowing that you care enough to help them makes a difference to them

It's not unbelievable at all ok. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Firstly ring your gp again. Attention seeking or not you can not take risks (imo). Highlight the threats and incidents and request immediate help/campus, referral etc. Of course this won't be immediate! Meanwhile just be there, support your children and show them how much you love and care for them. This is a balance between this and being accused of being controlling and interfering. Sorry, i only really have my own teen experience to rea go by , many years ago and of course many things are different now. I'm missing parts of text (and unable to fully read my response so appologies if its rather incoherent!) Is their father around? Do you have family and friends to talk to? I remember responding more to calm home environment and the reminders of being dearly loved, which in my unwell state I was convinced I was very much unloved. Having 2 children with similar issues is so life changing, hugs for you ok and remember YOU neex love, support and friends.

Sorry, can see my response when posted, reads terribly!! Camms not campus for a start!! Eye roll for me and hugs / flowers for you

I'm sorry. I can see this being my poor youngest, in a few years. She had such a rough start. Removing us from DV was the right thing to do, but has left it's scars. I was suicidal and self harmed at 16, I was unable to talk to my parents because everything was in the extreme with them, and they were a huge part of my problem. But if you can manage to separate your eldest's problems with you, from yourself, and sit down with her on an even footing, no judgement, just love and calm, maybe she might start to trust you. Thing is, at that age, the hormones and mood swings can make it so easy to lash out and not come down from that state for a while. And then embarrassment strikes.

I’d recommend writing off CaMHS as it could take 6 months to see anyone.
Instead I’d pay privately for a specialist therapist with experience in helping adolescents.

There’s an organisation called something like BCPS or similar which is a register of appropriately qualified therapists.

www.counselling-directory.org.uk/bacpcharity.html

Im sorry to hear you are going through this. I’ve also had difficulties like this. Older daughter 19 hated school and suffers with extreme anxiety, youngest started self harming totally out of the blue. Make sure you get support from Cahms team - youngest is out of this now and older dd has started uni - all be it shakily. When you are in the midst of it it seems like there is little hope but they can get there with your support.

Also schools refer to cahms now - it’s much quicker.

Sorry, yes I do have teens and I’m very sorry my post sounded thoughtless.
I have no experience of this so should have kept my mouth shut.

Mh issues are not always very logical. Get onto your gp. Then you will get referred. Try and get your kids to talk to you as this will help them. Don't judge, just listen.

you sound really angry with the older one.this will come across to her.
and because we give them the best lives possible.people can have all the money and things in the world and still suffer with their mental health.becasue its in their minds that's the point.so something will knock them off kilter and down they go.
ths could have been there dad.a build up of thing.not feeling woth anything or then not having anyone like them etc.
but or whatever reason they are suffering and need help.
kids don't do what yours have done simply out of manipulation and bad behaviour.they are calling out for something maybe but its a need all the same.
and with mental health can come violence.pushing people away.being angry.infact its more common because you push and push to see how safe people can make you.when you feel so out of control you often (even if wrongly.)push people to their limitd because you need to know anyone out there will keep you safe and catch you.
keep trying to talk.
with your youngest and self harm.have a conversation of triggers.is there anything you can use as a sign for when she needs to do it or feels out of control.a letter.a text and that means you do something to take her out of that head space.
when did it start.can she get some counciling.
woul mindfulness or meditation techniques help to keep her calm when she feels she is spinning and need to cut.
what feelings does she getfrom it.how can you be safe and get this from other areas.
do you do anything together.spend time together.
have they talked bout how they feel about dad?

if they cant seek help.then with mental health it takes an awful amount of time and patience.
no judging.calm.letting them no more than you think you need to that you are there,to talk to listen to hug and to hold.
that you are here and will always always keep them safe.

@NewYearHell when i was 15-16 i had very bad mental health... no one understood and all of my friends said I was lieing, i told my best friend that i was going to kill myself snd started walking somewhere to do so, luckily she was smart enough and went to my house and told my dad, ill never forget there faces when they found me and put me in the car, my bf sister and dad were crying but when I got home my mum just said i was a 'fucking idiot' and needed to 'grow up' ill never ever forget that day because of her..... saying that though it did shock me into a state of WTF was I thinking, I never once self harmed though, self harm is usually an attention thing.

Safe to say i got on medication soon after that and everything went up from there.

@NewYearHell I am so sorry you are going through this. It doesn't sound at all unbelievable. Mental health issues in our country are massive.

My dd has experienced mental health issues and talked about not wanting to live etc. It is so scary.

I will just give you a few things that have helped us...

but before I do, I am pretty certain you are a really good mum, who cares, and who has tried hard. I say this because you are concerned about your kids and taking them seriously, so please do not be hard on yourself.

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Take a look or call up Papyrus prevention of young suicides papyrus-uk.org/

HOPELINEUK is a specialist telephone service staffed by trained professionals who give non-judgemental support, practical advice and information to children, teenagers and young people up to the age of 35 who are worried about how they are feeling or anyone who is concerned about a young person. Read More >

0800 068 41 41
0778 620 9697
[email protected]

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Samaritans are very useful if you or your child just wants someone to talk to.

www.samaritans.org/

From the website...

CALL US
116 123 (UK)
116 123 (ROI)
Whatever you're going through, call us free any time, from any phone on 116 123.
We're here round the clock, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If you need a response immediately, it's best to call us on the phone. This number is FREE to call. You don't have to be suicidal to call us.

EMAIL US
[email protected] (UK)

[email protected] (ROI)

VISIT US
Find your local Samaritans branch.

WRITE TO US
Freepost RSRB-KKBY-CYJK, PO Box 9090, STIRLING, FK8 2SA

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Hope that helps a bit.

Lovingbenidorm it's not always easy to know what to say. I would not have imagined how common this was if my own child had not started self harming and talking about suicide.

Some really wise words from kateandme and others.

HJWT I am sorry your mum said that, maybe she was just really scared. My dd has said some scary stuff and it can be so hard as parent to know what to say or do. I am so glad your friend took you seriously.

NewYearHell re-reading some of your words makes me so sad. I have felt exactly as you have about my dd. It can be so hard.

It is not juts providing them with nice things or whatever, we love them, we care, and when they are depressed or anxious, we long to take that away. My daughter also spends long periods of time on her phone and I am sure it doesn't help her. But I guess it is also (in my dd's case) her lifeline to the outside world.

I've even used texts as a way to communicate with her when she doesn't want to talk to me. She's 14 now so pretty much in the middle of your two.

Is your older child being seen by CAMHS? If not, could you get her an appointment? I was told that if things develop or get worse to update CAMHS with the developments.

I keep a record on the home computer of all my emails to CAMHS. I try and remember to ass on appropriate info to school and keep a record of when I do this. I must admit I did slip up recently and thought school would be told automatically, they were not.

Lastly, I would just say listen to them both as much as you can. Do things with them like going for a hot chocolate or a slush puppy or whatever they like. If you drive and they ask for lifts make the most of the time in the car to chat and just 'hang out'.

I am sure you are doing this and I think it does help.

If there is an appointment you need to take one child to, can you stop on the way for a fancy latte coffee? It is not much, I know, but any point of contact and connection can feel good. My dd and I watch a crap TV from the box sets on the TV every night and it's just time together. She can get all emotional about fictional characters but seems emotionless about real people at times!

How are you a mean mum?

I believe you my MH started going downhill at 14 and I put my mam through hell. I have two DD's (mental health issues run down the female side of my family) and I am terrified of history repeating itself.

FWIW I got help and sorted and I'm now very close to my mam now

I’m so sorry you’re going through this and for your dds. Your life sounds very tough right now. It isn’t always easy to spot problems with your children especially in the excitement of time off work and in the run up to Christmas. Please know that by seeking help from a variety of sources you are doing really well and doing as much as you are able to help your girls. This will mean so much to them. Perhaps not now. But in the future.

I can’t really give you any advice just support. My dd is only 10. I hope you make progress together and get the help you need from cahms or a private psychologist if your funds stretch to this.

Unfortunately it's all too believable. I possibly wouldn't believe it but I have experience of it my dd has bad mental health and has talked about suicide it's heartbreaking, alarming, shocking, devastating all those feelings and many more made worse because you just don't know what to do.
I'm 'lucky' that my other dcs don't have mental health issues (so far) so my heart goes out to you.

You can only be there for them and get help, firstly medication as well as therapy but from past experience, doctors don't like to give out medication too quickly to young people so keep pushing.

Op, there is another thread running that you might find useful as some of the comments and links on it could be relevant to you.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3469859-to-think-ds-needs-professional-help-urgently

And for those who think self harm is attention seeking, that wasn't what I did it for as a teen. I used to cut myself and it was a form of release. Nobody else knew.

I can't give advice re the MH issues but what about the basics - food, exercise and sleep?

Is there a reason you can't stop your eldest going online all hours and leaving unrestricted access to look at what she wants? If you don't know how to use parental controls on your home network then you could find someone who can. You could set it up so that all her devices can't access the internet between certain times. You can also monitor or block what she is looking at. I wouldn't normally suggest 'snooping' but as your daughter is actually suicidal then I would. There are some truly fucked up sites and people on the internet. Why would you make it easy for her to access them?
If she has a mobile plan with a lot of data then that makes it more tricky to monitor but it's not impossible especially if you are paying for it.

I think with all the huge issues you are having with your DC it must be easy to think the basics don't matter but surely it can't do any harm, at least, giving it some thought
If you don't think you can do it and you can't afford to pay someone to help you then have a look online - there are loads of guides about.