Both kids suicidal

[NewYearHell]

Went into Christmas time feeling quite happy and optimistic. Kids seem to be in good fettle, had 2 weeks leave lined up including time away, after which I'll return to a job I love.

A week later I'm wondering what on earth happened. Learned that the 11yo has been self harming, and had to phone police to intervene when the 16yo locked herself in her room with knife, pills and access to roof.

(Before they arrived, 6hrs later, she went to bed. Doesn't believe they actually came and has carried on as if nothing happened)

Since then I've taken youngest to GP and had a referral to a mental health service (waiting on appt).

Haven't made much progress with the teenager. In the past she has engaged in counselling with a charity that works with family violence victims though they are currently closed. To be honest it's scary living with her.
She says she hates me and her sister and she will kill herself if I don't let her move out.
I've explained that I understand it's tough living with parents but that I don't have any other options for her other than if she leaves school, gets a job and moves to her own place. I've asked her to think about changes that could improve her life but I must admit I'm sceptical as I feel she is being manipulative.

I have tried very hard to give the children good lives. We have a nice home and they attend "good" schools. I encourage them to explore interests and try to listen to everything they want to talk about. The younger one helps put around the house but the older one is very reluctant and mostly looks at her phone. I'm pretty sure she stays up late online as a matter of habit.

The older one does have several long term friends, the younger one only has a couple.
Both of them say they feel sad expressed that their because their dad left, I'm mean and no one likes them. It's true that their dad left and it's probably true that I'm a mean mum. The no one liking them thing is a bit far fetched.

I feel quite sure that what they're doing online is contributing to their mental distress. I monitor the younger one's online activity very closely but the older one pretty much does whatever she likes. Point blank refuses to follow house rules re net use.

I feel very sad that the children are so unhappy, and also very frustrated with the older one who is unrelentingly negative and often violent. I feel ill equipped to cope with her any longer and have been wondering if anyone else has been in this situation and how they resolved it.

Ugh sorry for typos
Leaving should be having etc etc

This is obviously a really tough time for you all.

I think parenting support for yourself and possibly also counselling for yourself would be an important part of the solution here.

Being a mean mum is likely to be part of the problem. Kids need to know you are on their side.
My dd improved a lot after a GP appointment, given sympathy and understanding from GP and advice to go for a walk daily and an AD prescription. GP also told her to take responsibility for her own recovery. But what helped the most was after the GP appointment DH and I and dd all got on the same page and we started supporting her and stopped the tough love approach.

Re Camhs (Sorry OP can actuall see comments and what I'm writting now!!) As another response, private is an option. I have colleagues involved in paediatric psychiatric care and support . Private can be very varied with children. I would go down gp route first , being very honest with how serious this is and how concerned you are . Camhs has a varied reputation due to resources and region, however it IS on the improvement. Unfortunately I can only speak for my own area (I make referrals) in say funding has been directed into childrens mh. Unfortunately there is a lot of '!Attention seeking ' accusations generally with self harm. I can only say I would take these very seriously and lead to experts to assess, I've seen teenage suicide reports too often, these may have been unutend3d or cry for helps but the risk - to me- of underestimating teens is too great. I recall my own vulnerability too well. I really feel for you OP.

As well as involving your GP and the schools do you have any other trusted adults such as aunts of close friends who might be able to speak with either girl? Many teen girls find talking to their mothers difficult and so often blame mum for all that is wrong in their lives.

Look after yourself and connect with them in any ways you can. Watching daft tv together, walking, listening to their music. Learn to really listen.

And Christmas and New Year is a terrible time for enhancing everything that is wrong, quite possibly your Dd’s missed your ex more extremely then and will settle more when back into a routine.

Also explore the option of family therapy to learn to function as a new team of three. Best of luck.

You could try maybe just backing right off for a while, concentrate wholly on yourself and just let them get on with whatever they want and if that means they are up all night on their phones then so be it. Don't give any unsolicited advice for now.

So long as they are safe and in the house then there's not too much to worry about. Kids are aware of all the online dangers these days so probably no need to worry too much about that side of things.

You should have some friends over for drinks etc so they can see you having fun of your own and socialising.

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful messages.

I am reading, I don't get much chance to hop online in current situation.

The self harm is not attention seeking, I only found out when I happened upon their instagram account (didn't know she had one!) and the kids are self harming and sending photos of it to each other. They are following accounts like suicidegirl and other awful stuff. The content was sick, the language and casual references to porn, abuse etc shocking.
I am no internet innocent and I was genuinely shocked. To anyone who thinks their 10 or 11 to is OK on Instagram, think again. They have secret accounts etc.

She is now off instagram and in fact no longer in possession of a phone. She is onboard with this. She is very open with me and says the cutting relieved feelings if despair. I think she will be OK with lots of support, it's the older one that I feel is more at risk.

It's hard to understand when you look at your beautiful, bright and adored child and try to reconcile that with their feelings of self loathing and hatred but that's where I'm at.

She is highly sensitive and it frustrates me that she puts herself under so much unnecessary stress by staying up so late, eating poorly and listening to murder podcasts. How can anyone feel OK when they put themselves through that?

To those who asked, I do have some v good friends, I have no partner or parents. We've lost my parents, brother and niece to cancer in the space of 3 yrs so yes, some sad times.

Their dad is around but they feel frustrated by his lack of emotional intelligence, he just peppers them with questions or lectures them when they are upset. Sort of emotionally absent then plays big guy taking over when crisis strikes. They've asked me not to involve him in this.

Thank you to everyone who has shared their experiences and who has taken the time to post links and advice. I really do appreciate it.

I have to go but I'll be back. Xx

@Lovingbenidorm

I actually think your post was useful. I thought the same, but other posters have clarified why it absolutely isn't which is helpful.

OP "Both of them say they feel sad expressed that their because their dad left, I'm mean and no one likes them. It's true that their dad left and it's probably true that I'm a mean mum. The no one liking them thing is a bit far fetched."

Just to clarify why do you say you are a mean mum?

My dd would say the same of me, but I have always gone out of my way to help her with mental health issues, physical health issues etc. She is in a new relationship with someone of her age who lives far away (all very innocent at this stage) and my dh and I have driven her around to help her meet up with them. Yet dd would categorically think I am mean!

My therapist recommended a book which I have ordered but haven't read yet, I will report back when I have:
www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Mind-Into-Life-Teens-ebook/dp/B0089EHP4I/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&keywords=get+out+of+your+mind+and&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1546841868&sr=1-2

FWIW my DS seemed to do better when I took his phone away, as the social media stuff seemed to be the thing that caused him so much anxiety - how many followers/likes he had etc, as well as thinking everyone else was having a great time. It is a really toxic way to view the world when you have MH issues. Each time I get him to delete his accounts he just starts them up again after a few days off them.

You do sound a bit impatient with your 16 year old. It's really not accurate that people with poor mental health are being deliberately manipulative. It's likely that whatever she's doing, is her muddling along with dysfunctional coping methods - she's trying to cope.

Were your kids close to your family members who died? That's a hell of a lot of bereavement in a short space of time. Added to the feelings of rejection by their dad, I think there's a lot of heavy and difficult and overwhelming loss there.

I'm sorry you're all going through this, I hope you can find good support for them - and possibly support (counselling?) for yourself too, because it is very tough on people caring for those with poor mental health.

Italiangreyhound you are so kind, thank you for being so supportive and without judgement. You must be an amazing friend.

It's proving difficult to do anything much as I'm keeping such close tabs on the kids but today has been quite positive and I may be getting respite tomorrow 🌃

Just so you know my dd and o had a big chat last night. We were watching our favourite programme and it just came to an end. She started talking and we ended up in an hour long session of crying.

My child is very upset, difficult issues, it is so hard. I have not always been supportive because I genuinely did not know what to do!

It's hard to get a word in. Dd controls the conversation! But I decided to let her do most of the talking and she did reveal a lot about how she is feeling.

Parenting teens is so different to parenting little ones! I'd never have guessed until I became mum to a teen! good luck.

@ PyongyangKipperbang
Thank you for sharing your story and I'm sorry for what you're going through. Are you able to tell me a bit more ie. what age and what sorts of things are happening and what is helping?

@ Bettyspants
The younger one has seen the GP, the older one is booked in for next week. Earliest I could get. I am trying to be patient and supportive and I do think that they are seeing a teensy bit better.
Sorry, can see my response when posted, reads terribly!! No, it reads fine, that's exactly how my posts go too lol

CheekyNandosForMe

Oh that sounds so hard and I do sympathise - and I do know that fear of your child experiencing the same distress. You want so badly for them to have a better life.

But if you can manage to separate your eldest's problems with you, from yourself, and sit down with her on an even footing, no judgement, just love and calm, maybe she might start to trust you. Thing is, at that age, the hormones and mood swings can make it so easy to lash out and not come down from that state for a while.

kateandme
kids don't do what yours have done simply out of manipulation and bad behaviour.they are calling out for something maybe but its a need all the same. Yes I agree, I don't think it's solely manipulation but it's definitely an element.

Italiangreyhound
Thank you for being so kind and thoughtful. I'm sort of waking up to the realisation that this is my reality and not something that's going to be fixed in a hurry.
I really do try to give the children lots of one-to-one time as well as family time but clearly something is amiss!

Thank you for update op , i must have missed your youngest seeing the gp , was it helpful? At least your eldest is booked in , it may take few weeks for a referral unfortunately.

@ Betty

Thanks for asking. Appointment was OK, not great as my daughter refused to speak to the Dr and was v upset afterwards. My feeling was that she needed to know I was taking it seriously and she has since been v open about feelings so that is something. She's been referred for counselling but says she doesn't want it. A big part of the problem was online bullying and without wanting to go into too much detail, this is being handled by authorities now.

It has been a very intense time and I think we are all exhausted. Just trying to take life as quietly as possible.