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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that with a bad sleeper it's either cosleep or sleep train?

86 replies

LisaSimpsonsbff · 03/01/2019 11:12

At my wits end, would prefer no bashing (but accept I may get some, I wanted the traffic of AIBU!). My baby will be six months in a couple of days. He has been getting steadily a worse sleeper since around four months, with a couple of periods of brief respite - he wakes up around 6 times a night, with the longest period of sleep between bedtime at 7pm and wake-up at about 10pm (which means it's possible but restrictive for me to get in some sleep then). He then wakes around every 60/90 minutes. I was feeding him back to sleep every time, but that's stopped working and we get long, and very unhappy, awake periods. Things were a bit better when he slept in a Next To Me but he outgrew it (kept waking up hitting the side) and there is no physical way to fit his cotbed alongside our bed - the Next to Me only just fitted.

So, since he outgrew the Next To Me I've been taking him into our bed more and more as this didn't stop the wakings but getting out of bed every time was killing me. This got more frequent over Christmas, when we were staying with family for nearly two weeks and very conscious of him waking up other people, so we were resorting to him sleeping with us earlier and earlier in the night. I've always hated cosleeping - I sleep dreadfully with him in the bed - but was willing to accept this but then on New Years' Day woke up to find I'd pulled the covers, which I'd carefully put below my waist, up over me and over his head in the night and that I was also partially lying on him - he was very deeply asleep so didn't wake instantly when I tried to wake him and that 10 seconds felt like the longest and by far the worst of my life; I was retching with horror in the belief that I had killed him. Writing this now is making me cry. He was fine (though very cross at me shouting at him and shaking him awake!) but I don't want to ever feel like that again, ever in my life. To be very clear : I absolutely know that cosleeping can be very safe and works brilliantly for a lot of people - I'm not at all anti-co sleeping in principle - but I now feel that I never want to do it again and that that is a very hard line for me.

The question is what my alternatives are? If I get up to feed him six times a night I basically don't sleep, and I'm back at work this week (I work mostly from home and DH is now on leave with him, so this isn't a very rough transition for DS; I don't actually think he's noticed so far, though we're only on day two!). There is also what probably adds up to two hours or more of him crying across the night as I keep trying to put him in his cot after he falls asleep feeding, failing, and having to rock him as he cries. It can take six or seven attempts to do this (which is why we gave up on putting him in his cot while staying with other people). There is considerably more crying, and usually total failure, if DH tries to do this without me feeding him first, so him taking over night wakings means more tears and even less sleep for everyone. Part of me wonders whether we should bite the bullet and do a form of sleep training (the only one I'll currently consider is gradual retreat) so at least the crying is, hopefully, 'going somewhere'. Part of me feels bad for considering it. But everyone I know seems to either cosleep or sleep train (or have a magical sleeping baby), and I wonder if I'm being unrealistic to even think it's possible to do neither? AIBU to think that? And what would people do?

OP posts:
minipie · 08/01/2019 15:23

DH barely talking to me he's so cross (he says I'm going to die on the motorway if I keep driving like this 'and do you think that it'll be tear-free for DS if his mum is dead?' - helpful!)

He has a point. I booked the sleep trainer after I nearly fell down the stairs holding DD, because I was so tired I was a zombie.

Mistigri · 08/01/2019 15:25

All three of you will be happier if you are all getting some sleep! I think it sounds like you really need some outside help.

LisaSimpsonsbff · 08/01/2019 15:33

Rang the HV who said that I can't deny night feeds at all until he's established on solids (which isn't going terribly well). She recommended PUPD, starting with naps, and basically told me that she couldn't tell me to give up breastfeeding, but that I should give up breastfeeding. She also said 'it's hard, isn't it, because clearly it would be best for you all if you weren't working but bills have to be paid'. GUILT GUILT GUILT.

Plus this is another working day where I have spent about as much time thinking or talking about DS's sleep as actually doing my job.

OP posts:
MammaSchwifty · 08/01/2019 15:42

Just go for the sleep trainer, it could save your sanity, worst thing is you lose the cost of a few nights in a hotel (the actual amount depends on the pacakge)

Stop reading SO-S, she has her point of view, sticks to it strongly, you know what it is, but it's not working for you. Plenty more opinions in the sea.

You gain nothing by bathing yourself in guilt, you need to be pragmatic and work with your situation.

There's nothing wrong with you needing sleep and going to work. The road safety aspect is an important consideration.

Good luck, please let us know how you get on. I remember this hell, and I didn't also have to work at this stage, you have all my sympathy.

LeafyGreen333 · 08/01/2019 15:47

My daughter is a year old, but from months 4-7 I was up throughout the night with her. She sounded like your baby - she'd go down in her bedside crib fine at 7pm, but from midnight to 6am would wake hourly. I have never felt so tortured and miserable. At my wits end, I called a sleep trainer (one who was recommended, and who believed in gentle methods) and within 2 nights our baby was sleeping 7pm-7am, and she continues to sleep well now. I can't recommend a sleep trainer highly enough. Good luck!

toomuchtooold · 08/01/2019 18:00

She also said 'it's hard, isn't it, because clearly it would be best for you all if you weren't working but bills have to be paid'

Eh fuck that. I SAH for 2 years, but by 6 months I was going off my nut from the lack of sleep. You're a human being, you need sleep whatever you're doing!

Smurf123 · 08/01/2019 20:01

What do sleep trainers really do? I'd it just that they make you stick to the strategy or how do they work? Genuine question.. I dont think I could have someone else in my house but the idea of baby sleeping 7-7 is nice...
Last night was our best night in a long time down at 8 then woke at 1145,4, 520.. Although just been to gp today who thinks ds may have temporary lactose intolerance so feeling particularly bad for trying to stretch his feeds and not bf all night over the past few days..

LisaSimpsonsbff · 08/01/2019 20:57

My understanding is that they just basically tell you what to do and so take the decision making away from you - I'm not expecting the person we're thinking of using to tell me anything I don't know (it's obvious that DS has bad sleep associations and is overly reliant on feeding to get back to sleep), but I just want someone to give us really clear, detailed instructions, some handholding, and a sense that someone in this whole mess knows what they're doing. DH and I keep lurching so chaotically from one approach to another that it can't be helping but we don't have the confidence to pick an approach and stick with it.

That's one of the many things that makes me sad - I've always felt a bit inadequate because I don't feel like a naturally maternal enough person (in the dark days I used to wonder if that was why I had the miscarriages) and I so wish I could be one of those women who trill 'oh just cosleep, that way everyone sleeps - I get a full eight hours, I don't even wake up to feed! - and you get to enjoy the baby cuddles, they're not little for long you know!', but I'm not. I feel like those women know exactly what they're doing and I have absolutely no fucking clue.

OP posts:
brookshelley · 09/01/2019 02:55

That's one of the many things that makes me sad - I've always felt a bit inadequate because I don't feel like a naturally maternal enough person (in the dark days I used to wonder if that was why I had the miscarriages) and I so wish I could be one of those women who trill 'oh just cosleep, that way everyone sleeps - I get a full eight hours, I don't even wake up to feed! - and you get to enjoy the baby cuddles, they're not little for long you know!', but I'm not. I feel like those women know exactly what they're doing and I have absolutely no fucking clue.

I have felt exactly the same as you. You go to some of these baby groups and it seems they are all martyrs who need no sleep, food, rest, time with husband, or anything because they LOVE THEIR BABY and it doesn't last forever, blah blah blah.

You know what changed? I had DC2 who is very easy and relaxed, sleeps well, doesn't need a routine, would happily cosleep, etc. I realized that it wasn't me being a bad mother, it's that every baby is different and DC1 was just a more difficult one. Some of those "super mums" have easy babies. So when they say their little angel didn't sleep, it's different from what your baby who is more challenging is doing to you.

The sleep consultant is worth it, I promise you.

SheAlreadyDoneHadHerses · 09/01/2019 05:22

Oh god I'm in the exact same boat and I'm nearing the end of my tether.

My 5 month old only sleeps well in my arms, with the breast there to come on and off of as she chooses. This includes day time naps.

She normally manages a decent chunk of sleep at the start of the night in her moses basket, from about 9 til 12 or maybe 1 am. After that she needs to be fed back to a deep sleep (takes an hour or so at least) then carefully transferred to her basket where she might sleep for 30 - 45 minutes before beginning again. I often don't get properly back to sleep after the initial block so I'm barely surviving on 4 hours sleep most days.

The last three nights out of desperation we've tried co sleeping. I'm not comfortable with it for the same reasons as you OP... I'm terrified. Last night I woke up at midnight and couldn't immediately feel her breathing so ended up shaking her awake in a blind panic. Of course then couldn't sleep for the rest of the night. And that's with me laying on top of the duvet (freezing cold!) on like 4 inches of bed cos I'm sooo scared. I've given up on it tonight so here I am sitting in the nursery all night again while she sleeps in my arms. At least I know she's safe here. The Co sleeping wasn't much better anyway too be honest, she was still waking as frequently although it was a bit quicker getting her back down each time I guess.

My husband does try to help but he's working full time and needs rest. And anyway most of the time it's me she wants. She has one bottle of formula a day before bed (struggled getting her weight up) but is otherwise breast fed. We have a strong night time routine but she is fed to sleep and nothing seems to stop the wakings. I just don't know what to do anymore. I physically can't do cry it out. The one good thing is she doesn't cry much... But I know that's because I just give her exactly what she wants immediately even to my own detriment. I've just ordered the Elizabeth Pantley book after reading this thread to see if I can glean any inspiration about the hell to do before I go insane..

The really torturous thing is she had a month of sleeping through every night from about 8 weeks... I thought I had one of the magical sleeping babies for a whole month! Then it all changed and I've had months of nights like this, sat in the nursery with her for hours on end.

In some ways I find it easier mentally to sit here all night rather than keep trying to put her down only to be woken again just as I'm on the cusp of drifting off to sleep. The constant waking just before I fall asleep feels like torture. Sitting here at least I know where I stand.

I have no idea what to do or where to begin. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread OP but if anyone has any words of wisdom for me too I would really appreciate it.

I hope things get better for you soon OP, you clearly love your baby very much. Know that you are not alone in this struggle!!

ScruffyMcFunkyPants · 09/01/2019 14:23

Before you start sleep training I'd suggest examining your sleep/eat/daily routine and, as I like to put it, fanny around a bit to see if anything changes.
My second daughter's sleep improved when I started feeding her when she woke up rather than when she went down and adjusted her nap length and times. There was a fair bit of protesting to start but by cherry picking a few things I'd read on t'internet in desperation at 2am e.g. giving her a few minutes before rushing to her to give her an opportunity to calm herself, making a decision to not pick her up but to sooth using patting and my voice in a 'we're in this together' sort of way etc. Basically pick the things that make sense to you and that you feel comfortable with as they're the things you're likely to stick with.
I don't think there's any 'one size fits all, do this and it'll definitely all be ok' answer but there's alot to be said for making small adjustments and noting what happens.
Also try to remember in times of desperation that being exhausted makes it soooo much worse and it will absoloutely pass.

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