To think this comment re 'family friendly' was inconsiderate

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We are getting a new HR Manager where I work. A few of us are back in work today, to provide a skeleton staff, and a couple of women were talking about her in the canteen. One of them said that she heard she has a couple of children, and the other said 'oh that's good. She'll be family friendly then'.
Our own Manager was there at the time. She doesn't have children but is extremely flexible and fair to her staff. She looked a bit upset (I think she's involuntarily childless) but said nothing.

AIBU to think it's really annoying when people come out with things like this? Just because someone doesn't have children, it doesn't mean that they're married to their job and don't have or understand the need to have a healthy work/life balance.

Having kids does give you empathy and flexibility.

Read the thread. It’s clear that some people with children don’t have this.

Yes that's a fair point" purpledaisies Maybe 'can give you...' would be better. Still, a person's attributes do not define another person's. Two different things can be true at the same time.

Really unfair, I'd be quite hurt if I was your manager. People really don't think before they speak sometimes.

In my experience, people with families do tend to understand the need more. But that doesn’t mean those without families are always bad at it.

^I agree. You can’t know what it is like to be a parent unless you are one yourself.

I don't have kids and didn't take offense when I read it. It's probably been on their mind "what if the new person is hostile towards those with kids and it makes my life difficult" - sounds like they just blurted out stream of consciousness and they didn't mean anything adverse to anybody. I agree it might be an erroneous assumption to make, but everybody is only human.

If you're not the person wondering if you caused offense and not the person who may/may not have taken offense, don't worry about it, life's too short!

You can’t know what it is like to be a parent unless you are one yourself.

This is not about knowing what it’s like to be a parent. It’s not rocket science to understand that someone with a dependent might occasionally require a bit of flexibility at work.

YANBU. It presumes that people with out kids are incapable of understanding some of the extra issues which may come with being a parent and managing accordingly.

There's also the possibility that despite having kids she may well be a dick of a manager who isn't flexible or understanding!

Families are not just about young children FFS.

I think they meant it more as people with children are more likely to be one of the ones who is family friendly not peoplewoth children are more family friendly than people without.

@yetanotherspartacus yes but people who have experience caring for young children are more likely to be understanding towards people fulfilling other carer roles and vice versa. It’s just that most people who don’t have children don’t tend to experience that until later in life when their parents get old.

IME those that tend to go on about being "family friendly" are the ones that are more likely to take the piss, create the biggest ruckus when it comes to holiday time off and are the least likely to cover for others when the shit hits the fan.

Generally women in senior positions with kids who are also over 40 are less flexible because they think if they rose up the ranks while juggling kids with 60 hour weeks you’re worthless if you can’t. Milennial managers tend to be the most flexible (with or without kids).

Women over 40. Sneer at any other group and you’ll be vilified, but it’s practically compulsory for the woke to scramble to slag us off.

@yetanotherspartacus yes but people who have experience caring for young children are more likely to be understanding towards people fulfilling other carer roles and vice versa.

Not in my experience.

@purpledaisies but for a lot of people it’s more than occasionally though. Requests to work from home on a regular basis or to spread part time hours between a number of days will make the difference between some parents staying with the company or leaving altogether.

It’s just that most people who don’t have children don’t tend to experience that until later in life when their parents get old.

That’s right. None of us bother to pat any attention to our friends, colleagues and relatives with children. We’re also all hard if thinking and couldn’t possibly imagine what it might be like. And none of us have ill husbands etc.

Families are not just about young children FFS.

I agree, @YetAnotherSpartacus. However, never having had to provide care for a family member, I wouldn’t presume to know exactly what the pressures are and what kind of flexibility works best for someone in that situation. I’d accept I didn’t understand and couldn’t possibly unless I had done it.

However, never having had to provide care for a family member, I wouldn’t presume to know exactly what the pressures are and what kind of flexibility works best for someone in that situation.

But pressures are unique to each situation depending on what childcare support there is from partner/family etc, what capacity there is to buy in support, when local breakfast clubs run, whether there are additional needs or long term illness to consider etc etc etc.

Being a parent to your own children doesn’t give you experience of someone else’s situation.

However, never having had to provide care for a family member, I wouldn’t presume to know exactly what the pressures are and what kind of flexibility works best for someone in that situation

My experience has been that if the family member is an ill, incapacitated or elderly adult most organisations or managers fail to give a fuck and/or bully and penalise those of us needing flexibility.

As someone who works in HR, I think we need to remember there are managers out there with kids who are dicks, just having kids does not mean you are supportive to your staff. And there are many organisations whose senior staff have kids that are not supportive to others. And also remember that these days 'family friendly' is about a lot more than young children - issues with elderly relatives is very important for people too now. I find having an organisation that is flexible means employees are more productive and happier and thats the best thing for everyone - but I work in a very flexible organisation, and not everyone does.

People sometimes need time off to care for a sick partner/husband or elderly relatives. Family, means close family, not just children

Generally women in senior positions with kids who are also over 40 are less flexible because they think if they rose up the ranks while juggling kids with 60 hour weeks you’re worthless if you can’t.

Cherries, wtaf?!

I'm childless and I run my own business and employ a number of staff. I do not need to have given birth to understand that at times people may need a bit of flexibility for lots of reasons. As an intelligent human being I know that young children need looking after by one of their parents when they are ill, or there is a failure of normal childcare, or for some reason there are just no other options than for that person to look after a child. Surprisingly I have also had to leave work in a child related emergency when one of my nieces was taken ill and my brother was working away and my sister in law in another part of the country. Sometimes shit just happens.

I've also been responsible for the care of an elderly childless aunt, my mother and now my mother in law and so have needed flexibility.

Sometimes I've also needed flexibility so I can do a hobby or volunteering. Other times it is because I'm tired and just want some time to myself, or go shopping.

My attitude as an employer is that I will accommodate all of those reasons and anything else that my staff need time off for as long as they don't take the piss. Parental status is irrelevant. Everyone is and should be entitled to flexibility and if it was just for parents then there will be a lot of resentment in the workplace - and quite rightly so.

Thanks to all of those who recognise that it is not just about children.