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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this comment re 'family friendly' was inconsiderate

73 replies

greenlightredlight · 31/12/2018 11:49

We are getting a new HR Manager where I work. A few of us are back in work today, to provide a skeleton staff, and a couple of women were talking about her in the canteen. One of them said that she heard she has a couple of children, and the other said 'oh that's good. She'll be family friendly then'.
Our own Manager was there at the time. She doesn't have children but is extremely flexible and fair to her staff. She looked a bit upset (I think she's involuntarily childless) but said nothing.

AIBU to think it's really annoying when people come out with things like this? Just because someone doesn't have children, it doesn't mean that they're married to their job and don't have or understand the need to have a healthy work/life balance.

OP posts:

BoomBoomsCousin · 31/12/2018 17:31

An assumption that someone with kids will be family friendly does not equal an assumption that someone without kids cannot be family friendly.

It’s not a perfect assumption to make, but it has a sensible basis (experience of having to juggle family will likely have helped them develop insight and empathy). Someone without children may or may not have experience that develops those things and so is more of a roll of the dice.

It’s not rude to be pleased when you find out that something you value is more likely to be protected or championed by a new colleague as well as those who already champion/protect it.

chillpizza · 31/12/2018 17:35

My closer to retirement boss is amazing family friendly even being my toddler to meetings.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 31/12/2018 18:37

having to juggle family will likely have helped them develop insight and empathy

Wow. Being in my mid 40's and having a lot of life experience has helped me develop insight and empathy.

I've been the manager on the end of the "innocent" comments about my lack of children and how I can understand their lives blah blah blah. I actually sacked the main culprit just before Christmas for her attitude towards me. It's rude, hurtful and completely unnecessary in the workplace.

People need flexibility and it is a good employer who can offer that to all of their staff regardless of their situation at home.

PurpleDaisies · 31/12/2018 18:45

You forget leigh, most people who aren’t parents don’t have any responsibility or difficulties on their lives. They float around on happy clouds.

IcedPurple · 31/12/2018 18:47

It’s not rude to be pleased when you find out that something you value is more likely to be protected or championed by a new colleague as well as those who already champion/protect it.

I guess, going by your broad generalisations of parents/childfree, it would also be perfectly reasonable for childfree employees to welcome the arrival of a new childfree employee, as they're not going to be demanding 'flexibility' to 'juggle their family'?

ScreamingValenta · 31/12/2018 18:49

I think I've actually been more inclined to accept the judgement of people who said they needed time off with their children, than managers who had children of their own - I've sometimes had other managers ask why I'd let someone have the day off to stay home with their ill DC, as their DC of a similar age could've managed by themselves.

TeachesOfPeaches · 31/12/2018 18:52

The woman MD who owns the business I work at is a 50 year old single mother to teenagers and is the least flexible employer you can imagine. She did it all the hard way so why should we get any slack?

LokiDokiArtichoki · 31/12/2018 18:55

Generally women in senior positions with kids who are also over 40 are less flexible because they think if they rose up the ranks while juggling kids with 60 hour weeks you’re worthless if you can’t. Milennial managers tend to be the most flexible (with or without kids)

This completely. My (ex) boss was sneery when I asked for flexible working after taking 10 months mat leave, and I got the ‘I only took 3 months off’ crap, why should you ask for special treatment?

Yeah and your husband is also a sahd whilst he writes his novel so you’ve never had to worry about all the palaver that comes with having a child in ft nursery you bint.

HollaHolla · 31/12/2018 18:55

I’m a manager in my 40s. I’m flexible and responsibilities-friendly in my approaches. I think it’s unfair to only allow flexibility for parents - we all need it sometimes.

I don’t have children, but I’m flexible with all of my team, as I know that I get better results, and a better atmosphere, by taking the approach that sometimes life happens. It means I’m (hopefully) as fair as possible to everyone, without singling out parents.

BrusselPout · 31/12/2018 18:59

I had a manager I loved, but she would always make sure she got first dibs over the kids holidays etc, so having a manager with kids too is not always a benefit!!

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 31/12/2018 19:02

You forget leigh, most people who aren’t parents don’t have any responsibility or difficulties on their lives. They float around on happy clouds.

And we're always out partying, have endless supplies of money, can go on holiday at the drop of a hat and are completely selfish, immature and never grown up.

Have I got them all?

Whatsnewwithyou · 31/12/2018 19:03

I'm a manager in my forties, too. I'm extremely flexible and accommodating to all my employees whether they are parents or not, as lo g as I feel those employees generally contribute their share and don't take the piss. Last year a man who I generally consider quite lazy asked me to let him come in late one day because it was his daughter's fifth birthday and he wanted to be there when she woke up. It happened to be a day when we had a big meeting that morning and meant I would have to write the meeting report - something that should have been his job. This was an extra 3-4 hours work for me. I said yes but I'm still not sure whether it was reasonable- as I don't have children I don't know how much it's expected to an there on their birthday mornings??

IcedPurple · 31/12/2018 19:06

Have I got them all?

Close, but not quite.

You forgot that we don't know true love because we haven't got children.

ScreamingValenta · 31/12/2018 19:08

Leigh Don't forget that we're totally career-focused and if not sitting on the Board of Directors already, we won't rest till we get there!

Yura · 31/12/2018 19:10

Assuming somebody to be flexible just because they have kids is not a great idea. in my experience, people with a stay at home parent, nanny or handy grandmother are usually not very child friendly as they tend to be not involved in minor emergencies such as d&v etc. Both parents working families - more likely. no kids - depends on the person. All in all a silly remark.

RoboticSealpup · 31/12/2018 19:11

I agree. My boss is about as flexible as they come and she's happily childfree.

ScreamingValenta · 01/01/2019 00:57

I'm happily childfree ... but, if I'd have had children, they'd have been fluent in Latin before they could even talk. So there!

ConversationCoat · 01/01/2019 07:53

Leigh, childless/free people also don't have a clue what it means to be tired

thecatsthecats · 01/01/2019 07:58

Our HR woman is an inflexible, old fashioned cowbag.

I've had to push through every single family friendly adaptation to company policy through her, applied equally to any need for flexibility, not just families.

Patienceisvirtuous · 01/01/2019 07:59

My manager doesn’t have children and she’s very flexible ! I didn’t have DS til I was 39 and would like to think i’d spent the former 15 years being a flexible manager.

I imagine if your manager is involuntarily childless the remark might have stung.

FairyBunnyAgain · 01/01/2019 08:24

It must be a woman thing, the company I work for has 4 directors, 2 are older men with teenage / adult DC and don’t get the need for maternity leave or flexible working at all as they both have wives who don’t want or to worry about that. The third director has a young family and makes up his own rules as to when he is in and when he is looking after his DC whilst not understanding employees who take a year of maternity leave then ask for reduced hours on their return.

My team are grateful that I set most of the rules and try to be fair even when the message from above is not

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 01/01/2019 09:22

Leigh, childless/free people also don't have a clue what it means to be tired

Forgot that one! And if we are it's self inflicted due to our non stop party lifestyle!

MeOldChina · 01/01/2019 09:34

I can see why your manager was upset but the comment wasn't necessarily meant as a dig against her. It sounds like she herself is 'family friendly' and percieved as such.

I've had an employer (male) who, on the face of it was flexible and understanding towards parents, but then could also be a bit thoughtless about planning in extra meetings outside our usual hours at quite short notice. I think this showed a lack of understanding of family life and the childcare juggle, and it can mean that the parents feel like the flaky team members.

LloydColeandtheCoconuts · 01/01/2019 10:34

Both my managers are female with a daughter each - both late teens. They are THE most unfamily friendly pair I've ever worked with. Think eye rolls when I have to leave because of a sick child, refusing unpaid leave to watch children in performances etc. I can't stand them.
I think it's time to look for a new job🤔

Mookatron · 01/01/2019 10:40

Having kids does give you empathy and flexibility. Saying that doesn't mean those without kids don't have those qualities.

The thing is though that you wouldn't assume a man with kids would be up for family friendly policies. If everyone supported policies that supported employers as whole people at the same time as wanting the job done family friendly policies wouldn't be necessary anyway - and that's real equality.

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