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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

You shouldn't allow your children to run riot at a wedding

76 replies

TheTruthBeTold · 30/12/2018 21:14

I haven't spoken with my older sister for six months or so.

We didn't have the most fantastic relationship to begin with as over many, many years she has steadily become a very absent person in my life. She lives miles away from where me and my family are based and moved there when I was around 14 or 15, so I don't see her often, but when she does visit, she centres her visits around my mother but does not bother to contact me or my brother to make any plans when she is around. I can only describe her well with what my close friends who understand the situation very accurately refer to her as: the 'golden goose' of our family.

It was always a strained relationship in my eyes, but after her PFB, the distance between us grew considerably. PFB is unruly, spoilt, aggressive and rude, and has always has been. He is 8yo. My anger toward her regarding him and his behaviour is inflamed more so by her lack of authority or any real acknowledgement of his behaviour and the effects that it has on everyone around her. After she had her second born, my niece, things just got worse. She is now 5yo and is a sweet, well behaved child when she is not around PFB, but the two of them together is enough to make you pull out your hair (even for the most seasoned and patient parents). Her son has, in the past, kicked me in the leg as hard as he could and told me to my face that he hated me for something as simple asking him to sit in his chair, and she responded, and still does, by not taking a single punitive measure. One side of our family do not want to be around her or her children when they are visiting as they clearly can't be bothered with it any more.

Going out to a restaurant or other public setting with them is an embarrassment and an even further annoyance to me and my other family members as around other people she is very happy to place everyone else in a babysitter/parental role by proxy, and can often disappear without any notice, leaving you to deal with her kids, without a single thank you or apology. She usually allows them to run riot. I have witnessed the running around to other tables and sitting with other families, getting in the way of waiters, screaming, shouting, throwing nasty insults at people, and watching things loudly on their phones and iPads, all the the annoyance of the entire restaurant. She is never apologetic for any of it, and refuses to acknowledge anything is wrong. Anyone who may approach the subject with her will receive abuse or she will stop speaking to you for months or entirely, because in her eyes, you are wrong. You will always be wrong and how DARE you even say such a thing?! "They are just being children", "I don't want to crush their spirits", etc, etc.

So after me and my DH got engaged, the day came where I finally realised I had a choice to make for our wedding day. It occurred to me what a relationship altering decision this would be for me and my sister. If I invited my sister, would I invite her children? If I did not invite her children, would she even come? Would she even speak to me anymore? If I invited her children, could she, for once, watch over them to ensure they were well behaved and did not spoil our day? Could she do this for me even if she'd never done it for anyone? Could I survive the day with her children in attendance and let everything wash over me, because, after all, family is family?

It was unfair and unreasonable, I felt, to banish friends and family's children from our wedding just because of her children, and many of our lovely guests would have been missing from our wedding due to childcare issues.

My mother made this a more difficult situation, whilst trying to help, by telling my sister that I had set out a 'no children at all' wedding, and that she could not invite her children, despite the fact that I had already verbally invited our close friends and their children previous to invites being sent out. Knowing that my sister could essentially come to our wedding and slowly realise that it was not a 'children free' wedding, I knew she would be hurt and angry on the day and that this was one of the worst things I could do to her and her kids. I did not want to exclude them either, after all, it was not really their fault.

This twisted my arm even further and eventually I sent out an invitation to her, advising her my mother was mistaken and that her children were welcome, and I asked her and my niece to be bridesmaids, all in the best hope that everything would be fine, and that we would all have a lovely day and a new experience to bond over.

The day of the wedding came and as the day progressed, I realised I'd made a grave error in thinking anything would be any different with her and her kids. It started with the meet and greet immediately after the ceremony; whilst me and my DH were supposed to be welcoming and thanking our guests for coming, I ended up with her 5yo daughter clung to my leg, as my sister had already gone missing. This lasted about half an hour. Strike one.

Before dinner, my sister thwarted my table plans by doing nothing as her daughter then had a full blown tantrum in front of everyone because she wanted to sit next to my older niece (my brother's daughter) and my stepdaughter, and so because my sister did not take control of the situation, my maid of honour and DH's best man were forced to move onto another table to allow her daughter to sit there, which lasted all of twenty minutes, before she flitted between that table and my sister's table, leaving me without my MOH or my DH his best man on our top table, and a lot of empty seats on our top table, before dinner even began. Strike two.

During the speeches, her son ran back and forth with her phone in his hand, filming everything and shouting, getting right up close to everyone's faces with the phone whilst they were making their speeches. My sister did nothing to get him back in his chair. By this point, I was finding it difficult to enjoy the speeches or my dinner. Strike three.

During and after dinner, they ran around the restaurant area, going from table to table, or wandering around on their own. Me and my DH had purchased over £100 worth of polaroids for the camera so that everyone could take a photo of themselves with props for our guestbook. Because my sister let her children run around unattended, unbeknown to us, they used most of the film on stupid pointless photos and then broke the camera before many guests could take photos and sign the guest book, until my stepdaughter let me know this is what had happened. Strike four.

At some point in the afternoon, I came back from the toilet to be alerted my DH's best man that he had been looking after my sister's 5yo daughter as he had discovered she had been sat on a stool at the bar for nearly an hour on her own, completely unattended, chatting to the bar staff, my sister no where in sight, to which he was disgusted. Her son was running around like a lunatic. My maid of honour, DH's best man's wife, was equally enraged when she had discovered this as well, and stormed off to locate my sister. Strike five.

After my sister was located, I decided it may be best to have a quick word with her as by this point I wasn't happy at all and both DH's best man and my MOH had got me fired up and I'd just about had enough. I don't even think I was angry or rude at the time, but politely informed her that DH's best man had looked after her daughter for an hour as she was unattended and upset, because my sister could not be located, and that it was not my guest's responsibility to do this. I also informed her of the broken camera and wasted film which was a result of their actions, and asked her if she could please keep a better eye on them. No more serious incidents occurred apart from when I was saying goodbye to them all when they left, and went to give her son a hug, who told me that I was disgusting and smelt awful, as he'd seen me have a cigarette, and that I was going to die. I said nothing.

I texted her days later, and had no response. I tried to ring her one day, no answer. Messaged again over the coming weeks, no answer. Photographs went up online, no comments or likes from my sister. Didn't think anything of it at the time over the years I've heard nothing from her only to suddenly get a message back weeks or months later.
Around the three month mark, I receive a long FB message out of the blue from her to explain that she was hurt and angry about what I'd said to her, that the children did nothing wrong, that they'd come in good faith and she'd decided before the wedding to make more of an effort in our relationship but that the day spoiled everything and she wished she'd never come. Then a lot of fictionalised accusations that I'd told all of my guests before the wedding that she was a bad sister, a bad mother, and that her children were awful, and that everyone was 'laughing behind her back' for the entire day. In addition to this, she accused my DH's best man and my MOH of being shit stirrers and backstabbers who made up a load of lies about her on the day, caused a huge situation regarding her daughter being unattended, and that I needed to reconsider who my real friends were.

According to my mother, my sister later confessed to her a few days after the wedding that she was hurt and angry because I had said this to her, and that she and the children had come in "good faith" to enjoy our day, but that after I had a word with her, that she had wanted to "go home" and "had a miserable day".

I didn't respond to my sisters message and that was nearly three months ago now. She's sent no follow up since either. It felt like the final injustice, the nail in the coffin. I even thought about writing a letter. I've been silent because I can not sum up how I feel and do not know how to fix this, or even if I should or if it can be fixed, because I feel justified in what I said to her that day and feel I do not need to explain myself or apologise. Why should I sit and say nothing whilst you do nothing to rein in your children on our wedding day? or AIBU?

OP posts:
marylou1977 · 30/12/2018 23:54

Karen polos - you’re the sister, aren’t you???

I find your attitude interesting. Why are you so affronted by the thought of a parent managing their own child’s behavior? Do your own children act as if they were feral?

TheTruthBeTold · 30/12/2018 23:54

Karenspolos... the 'strikes' are there to include a narrative and context to those reading, to indicate each event then that struck a chord with me on the day, and I think it reads better than "this really pissed me off" then "that made me even more pissed off".

Clearly if I had taken them as "strikes" on the day I would not have let it continue throughout the day to strike five, which I actually did, as others have comments, I believe I was fairly restrained and never actually took it out on the kids.

You also haven't taken into account that these events (which the majority of actually involve my niece, not nephew, by the way) I actually hold my sister responsible for, rather than the children, as I stated in my post, it isn't really their fault, they are just children. I believe my nephew to be a good kid at heart but after years of no authority he is, understandably, unruly and rude

OP posts:
TheTruthBeTold · 30/12/2018 23:56

That being said I really am starting to believe you are my sister seeing as you are continuing to adopt this attitude and strange defence over my nephew in particular. Very familiar Hmm

OP posts:
JillScarlet · 31/12/2018 00:03

Oh, fuck her.
She behaved badly, she won’t accept responsibility, she won’t change. Distance is fine. Be careful what you wish for: my mother’s life has been made miserable by her continued efforts to keep a relationship with her narcissistic sister.

And it is a shame that your Mum didn’t do more in the day to supervise her grandchildren, seeing as her eldest Dd was allowing her kids to wreck her other Dd’s Wedding.

Where is the children’s Dad in all this?

Dollymixture22 · 31/12/2018 00:06

Poor kids - no active parenting at all. It’s a shame they don’t have stable relatives in their lives - but I don’t think your sister would allow you to be the positive influence they need.

How will they ever learn to behave.

I can’t ever imagine cutting ties with my family - particularly the children. However I don’t suppose you’re sister would allow a relationship with the kids without her interfering.

TheClaws · 31/12/2018 00:07

That’s a great story, OP, particularly with the strikes.

Vampiratequeen · 31/12/2018 00:08

I think Karenspolos could be your sister too OP. I don't think YABU, it is a parents job to look after their children, not let them run wild. When I got married I was worried about my how my DD would behave as she was 2 and not one to sit still, but she was very well behaved on he day, sat still in the church and was even quiet during the speeches, even though we had my mum lined up to take her out if she did start to play up. I think there was about 7 children all together throughout the day and a couple of extra at the night do, and they were all well behaved and a joy to have around. I do think when kids behave at a wedding they can make the day really special, but an unparented feral child can easily ruin the day, it is a major gamble.

thisisjustdaft · 31/12/2018 00:18

Don't worry, karma will strike her long and hard in a few years' time... roughly when her daughter is 12 and her son is 15 Grin

vuripadexo · 31/12/2018 00:20

The kids sound terrible but the wedding sounds badly managed from the start.

You knew the kids were brats but no one was assigned to watch them along with the sister. It would have just made sense to have mitigated a lot of the problems in advance. So e.g. someone would have noticed them disappearing to use all the cameras.

It almost sounds like you sacrificed your wedding (and your DH's wedding) in order to make a point about these kids. Maybe to try and take the golden child down a peg? Prove something to your parents?

Maybe your ambivalence is because nothing's changed. You basically wasted your own time and money and ruined your entire wedding for nothing.

TheTruthBeTold · 31/12/2018 01:05

vuripadexo... some really interesting points there. Hmm

Never said our wedding day was ruined, it was a wonderful day which me and my DH enjoyed, with many great memories, obviously I'm not going to list them all here as the point of the post is the issue with my sister and her kids. It wasn't all terrible!

I gave my sister an opportunity to come to my wedding and gave her the benefit of the doubt, as I believed a sister should do... despite everything, I wanted her to be there, and I wanted the children to be there, I wanted them to be part of our day and it felt like the right thing to do. Excluding her and the kids felt wrong and I would have felt guilty about doing so. I think there's something to be said for having a little faith in people, and giving them a chance... had I not invited her or the children, I would never have known for sure the events to follow. Imagine if I'd invited her and everything was fine? I wanted to believe that could be a possibility. Hindsight is 20/20.

Never heard of a bride and groom having to employ or assign someone to watch over the children when the parent is already there?! That's a new one.

If you have children, you should be responsible for them, and you should keep an eye on them and ensure that they aren't causing chaos, whether you are at a wedding, at home, at a pub, a library, or wherever.

As for your last points about sacrificing our wedding day just to take her down a peg, just... what? Sure, I wanted to throw away thousands of our hard-earned pounds down the drain to not only ruin our wedding day but to take my sister 'down a peg'?! Hilarious. As much dislike as you have for me and my post or points of view, I find it hard to believe anyone could do anything so poisonous. I am certainly not that person. I love my DH and I love my family and I wanted to believe that we could have a happy day together. Maybe it wasn't realistic but it's not exactly a terrible thing to hope for, is it?

OP posts:
iloveruby · 31/12/2018 01:25

OP - I don't think it is terrible that you hoped your sister would respect you and your wedding, but I think sometimes we have to accept that some people in our lives will continue to disappoint us.

I think you need to distance yourself from your sister as you will simply continue getting hurt and disappointed.

You need to start protecting yourself from that and the damage your sisters behaviour may bring.

Tryingbutfailingmiserably · 31/12/2018 01:34

It almost sounds like you sacrificed your wedding (and your DH's wedding) in order to make a point about these kids. Maybe to try and take the golden child down a peg? Prove something to your parents?

WT actual F!!!! Shock

Greensleeves · 31/12/2018 01:36

Either the batshit sister is sockpuppeting for England, or there is something funny in the water tonight!

Ruined her own wedding to teach her sister a lesson. Righty-ho.

Gth1234 · 31/12/2018 01:39

It must have been terrible. You can hardly not invite your sister. Perhaps you could have asked them to control their children, or leave. Perhaps your mum could have dealt with it.

Easy to think of things after the event, though.

PositivelyPERF · 31/12/2018 01:54

Quite simply, OP, you’re sister is a selfish cunt that thinks a celebration or night out involves palming her spoilt, rude brat of a son and her daughter onto other people. If it’s any consolation, her badly behaved little horror will turn into a disobedient teenager who will cause her no end of grief.

She’s actually done you a favour by not being able to hide her true colours at the wedding, as you can now go NC, guilt free. Imagine how much worse it would have been if she had pretended to ‘try’ to control, or even have an interest in, her kids. You would have been wondering if you’d over reacted, but this way, you know for sure she’s a cunt.

vuripadexo · 31/12/2018 01:55

lol i don't dislike you. i don't even know you. giving a different opinion doesn't mean i hate you. Hmm

look your sister is a bitch and her kids are brats. That's pretty obvious. I wouldn't have invited them at all. My point isn't that they are right but that the ambivalence you feel might be because there's more going on emotionally than you are admitting to yourself.

Never heard of a bride and groom having to employ or assign someone to watch over the children when the parent is already there?! That's a new one.

I've literally seen it suggested numerous times - inc on mumsnet - as the no 1 solution to dealing with a difficult family member at a wedding. Alcoholic siblings, warring parents, homophobic in laws, out of control children. The idea is that a willing guest takes on a buffer role to stop the person ruining your day.

As for your last points about sacrificing our wedding day just to take her down a peg, just... what? Sure, I wanted to throw away thousands of our hard-earned pounds down the drain to not only ruin our wedding day but to take my sister 'down a peg'?! Hilarious.

Is it? You said earlier that you knew if the kids weren't invited she'd blame you but inviting the kids and them screwing up in front of everyone meant the wider family couldn't blame you.

She's the golden child right? They'll take her side unless it's completely impossible to?

As much dislike as you have for me and my post or points of view, I find it hard to believe anyone could do anything so poisonous. I am certainly not that person. I love my DH and I love my family and I wanted to believe that we could have a happy day together. Maybe it wasn't realistic but it's not exactly a terrible thing to hope for, is it?

Why would it be poisonous? Your language here is very dramatic and rings a bit false.

It seems to me like a part of you knew it would end in disaster and maybe felt it was the only way to distance yourself from a dysfunctional and mean relative without being blamed.

Why would that be poisonous?

Your post reads a bit passively considering all the shitty things she's done to you. Do you love your sister? She doesn't seem to care one jot about you. Are you even able to really be honest about how you feel about her?

Jamiefraserskilt · 31/12/2018 02:11

Up to the point you had to speak to her about the kids, did you chat at all? She says she was there in a conciliatory capacity which is hard to believe if you did not have a good catch up.
I have missed many a do because of removing my kids from over excitement to calm down or an erupting tantrum. Although there comes a stage where you can relax a little, five is obviously not it for your dn. As such, "the village" supports a parent alone at a do to cover loo breaks, eating etc. However, it should never come to a point where the host is aware of an issue. Ever. It was her responsibility to watch her kids, find things to entertain them, find kind people to cover her if needed.
Yes, your moh and bm should have dealt with it better by taking her by the hand and finding her mum, not moaning at you. As should everyone who witnessed the behaviour including your mum. The top table is sacred until the meal is done and kids should learn that at some times during events it is bums on seats and mouths closed or they and their parent go into another space and part of the decision You make when accepting an invitation;
you take young kids to a do and you expect a certain amount of inconvenience to your day whilst you manage them. It is part of being a parent.
Now mine are older, I have walked prams and pushchairs around churchyards, fields, car parks, changed nappies, made napkin swans, daisy chains, played clapping games and done my shifts with others so the wedding party can enjoy their day. On my terms and because I wanted to not because I had to because their parent was too busy partying to parent. If everyone does their bit it makes it easier. Your sister did not step up and does not like being told off. Not many adults do. However, instead of being mortified and doing the right thing she has just turned it right in back to you for being unreasonable.
Let her stew.
She needs to apologise. She needs to see that she disrupted your day. She needs to do something about her children and their boundaries before it is too late.
If you find yourself in the same room, just be polite and civil but don't go out of your way to be conciliatory. You do not need to discuss it or remind anyone as they were there and witnessed it first hand.
Oh, and if the children are rude or violent, tell them to stop. Do not be afraid of speaking to the child about their behaviour. If more of you did it then perhaps she would step up.

Lillygolightly · 31/12/2018 02:59

I think your sister probably disappears at such occasions and family get togethers because I’m guessing she’s looking to escape and get a bit of rest herself. I would bet she dare not admit that to anyone and probably doesn’t even admit it to herself.

She’s not stupid she knows her kids behave terribly and is either unwilling or unable to put any form of discipline in place. Let’s face it after 8 years it would be no easy task. So she’s put her head in the sand, fingers in her ears and is maintaining that she is right, that she is a good parent and that her kids aren’t badly bahaved.

I don’t doubt she loves or cares for her kids but she obviously can’t handle discipline or any criticism regarding lacking of rules and boundaries for her kids.

She’s is in a deep denial regarding her parenting abilities and thus is overly sensitive in regards to any judgment about it.

This is not something she’s going to get over any time soon or maybe ever, and her being hurt is her method of self defence because it allows her to continue on in her denial. She can paint you as the villain and maintain her and her children are the innocent party/victims.

If this were me I would have sent her a message saying something a long the lines of:

Sister, I love you and I love your children regardless this has not changed and will not change. So please believe me when I say the following as is it is said with love. Your a good mother as you clearly love your kids very much, problem is, is that you love them so much that they can do no wrong. I beg of you for your sake and theirs to please consider implementing some discipline and boundaries for them, I promise they will not love you any less if you do. They will be better behaved, things will be easier for you especially in the long run and it will be so much nicer when we all spend time together as family. I realise this sounds condescending and judgemental but I promise it isn’t meant to be, I just want the best for you, niece and nephew. If you ever need or want to talk I am always here for you.

With love, your sister.

Beeziekn33ze · 31/12/2018 03:13

Karen, you're her sister, aren't you?

Coldtoes28 · 31/12/2018 04:08

Write a letter. Even if you don't send it it will make you feel better x

Mummyoflittledragon · 31/12/2018 05:08

I agree with Lilly. She speaks a lot of sense. I wouldn’t be sending any message though. I have a brother and mother in deep denial. Letters and emails will do no good. You already have a brother, who has gone nc with her. You cannot make people listen to what they are unwilling to hear.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall when the children hit their teens. Someone said 12 and 15. I expect it will start before this - my dd is 10 and the change in the past year is pretty dramatic. She’s made a big shift from little girl to preteen. She’s a feisty thing with an abundance of energy. Had she received the sort of parenting you describe she would already be a nightmare!

Belindabauer · 31/12/2018 09:53

Wow
I agree with much of what Lily has written.
You made a decision and it was right at the time.
A couple of questions, is she a single parent? Does the father see his children/have any influence. What does she do when she disappears?
I think if I were in the best man or moh's shoes i'd have been horrified too. Who leaves a 5 year old unattended for an hour at a wedding?
It is not the job of a stranger to entertain them.
When my dcs were little I too have had to miss parts of events as the children for fidgety so I would leave the church etc. My dcs were very well behaved btw.
I've also declined invited which I thought were inappropriate for my dcs such as bonfire parties (dd1 disliked the noise), new years eve party's (too late to keep young children up) etc etc.
Some people are terrible parents. Some people don't put their dc first.
I would type out a reply then delete it.
You have done nothing wrong op.

CoughLaughFart · 31/12/2018 11:32

There have been some bizarre comments on this thread. Extra people being drafted in to look after these children because their own mother can’t be arsed? The best man and maid of honour being expected to act as some hybrid of babysitters and nightclub bouncers for the under-10s? The OP should have dropped the Polaroid idea just in case some uncontrollable child decided to smash them? This is madness.

OP - you need to stand your ground here. Your sister will try everything she can to make this your fault and, because she’s the golden child, eventually others in family may start to believe it. Your mother, although trying to be helpful by pretending the wedding was child-free, was actually taking the path of least resistance, and may well do so again. Be prepared for her to start talking about how you’ve ‘got’ to forgive your sister for the sake of the family; for it no longer being her fault because she behaved so badly, but yours for refusing to forgive. Stand your ground and say no. There is a point of no return and for me this would be it.

crispysausagerolls · 31/12/2018 11:44

I had a child free wedding (and shit like this is why), but I can fully see why OP chose not to, to avoid bullshit drama etc.

Your sister is a shit parent, and your best man and MOH are shit stirring arseholes who should’ve kept their fucking mouths shut on your big day. YANBU and I would say something to my sister, because it would eat me alive not to.

OffToBedhampton · 01/01/2019 18:03

YANBU as your sister didn't behave well by abandoning her DC and letting them run riot and unattended, so young at a wedding. It'd be slightly different if they were teenagers (whom one wouldn't expect to have to closely supervise & to behave well, although she & their father should have kept an eye on them still even if teenagers)

She's making it all about 'her' and 'her feelings' when it was your bloody wedding day and she wasn't the victim!

She's embarrassed that she was told off/caught out and is trying to deflect it into you. Bat it right back! "What they said and I said to you was fair, you left your young children unattended and badly misbehaving. It was a shame. I'm sorry to hear you are embarrassed that everyone saw that, but maybe you'll do different next time. Anyway we won't fall out over it with you"

You have no reason to cow-tow (is that a word?) to her.