To feel this judged for my child’s behaviour?

[MrsHobbs]

DS is 3 next month. Myself, DS and DP stayed the night last night at a family friends of DP’s. Another one of DP’s friends, his DW and their 4 year old DS were also there.
DS is a very ‘spirited’ child and always has been. He is very strong willed and doesn’t like to be made to do anything he doesn’t want to do. I feel we usually discipline and deal with this accordingly as best as we can, whilst also realising that he’s only 2 and is still figuring everything out. He is also bright, funny and very loving- I feel like he has a split personality lately.
So yesterday he was very well behaved, no meltdowns or kick offs, played lovely with other child there. He went to bed later than usual (wouldn’t settle in unusual room) and woke earlier than usual this morning- so was tired today. He all of a sudden started tantrumming badly over me trying to get him dressed and screaming very very loudly. I took him upstairs to calm down. This continued for a while and he was even hitting me and kicking me as I was trying to get him dressed. (No one else saw that though thank God). He has not been that badly behaved for around 6 months now. And I was mortified.
The main reason being is that DP’s friends DW is the most judgmental person I have ever met. I have never encountered a mother who makes another mother feel worse when they are already struggling. Only sympathising and empathetic fellow mums. When we speak and I tell of DS’s tantrums, she replies “my DS has NEVER had tantrums like that”. When DS struggled to settle last night and was messing about “we’ve never had that with DS, it’s one story and then we go- and he knows not to get out of bed”. (Her DP then entered the room and told me of how they used to have to take their DS out in the car to get him to sleep and how he used to shout for them when they did controlled crying- so it wasnt even completely true ). She has this time and on previous visits told me of her friends children and their behaviour (which sounds very similar to DS’s at times!) and refers to them as ‘turds’. She tells me how her DS’s private school is so much better than state schools and how much more advanced her child is than other kids his age because of it. She is very strict with her own DS and often scolds him for simply being a child (laughing loudly, being moderately hyperactive etc). He’s very well behaved all of the time I have seen him- and looks visibly shocked when my DS tantrums.
I would have been embarrassed anyway but felt all the more for her being there to the point I was in tears in the toilet. DP tells me I’m over sensitive and it has nothing to do with her. I know I shouldn’t care what she thinks, but I can just imagine her calling DS a ‘turd’ and judging my parenting because of how she is. AIBU? Is she?! I don’t think i’ll be going back there whilst they are staying again.

Well I’ve defonitely misspoke then if it’s a middle class word as that is not something I am!

And yes yabbers I think you could be right

Jesus, people are right when they say there are folk on MN desperate to diagnose anyone and anything with autism. If the OP has mentioned absolutely nothing other than a 2 year old child being a typical 2 year old child (although pushing past boundaries imo), it's really weird to rush in and start suggesting autism.

Thing is MrsHobbs you’ll just get it figured out and he’ll change it. DD is 9, we’re still figuring it out.😆

See after I’ve posted this earlier and been in tears about him. We’re now at my Mums and my niece and nephew are here and he’s being an absolute angel playing as good as gold and doing as he’s told first time. As I said- split personality child!

Don't worry MrsHobbs, you will learn not to care. My turning point was when my child lay down in a star shape on the floor in the middle of spec savers on a busy Saturday morning and refused to move until he could swap all the glasses around to the wrong sections.

The tuts and looks I got were classic. I smiled politely and said 'Good Morning' very loudly to all the (mostly elderly) people shaking their heads.

He has autism and in his mind all the glasses were in the wrong places. This was the turning point for me and I can honestly say I went from an anxious parent to completely laid back one from that day on wards!

I remember one of dd's first tantrums - mil was round. MIL turned to me looking shocked and aked, in horror "what on earth is she doing?". Trying to contain my laughter (dd's tantrums were really very mild) I said she was having a tantrum. MIL said "noe of my children ever had tantrums". Way to go MIL, I thought. DH only recently to that he remembers MIL grimly dragging him around town while he screamed and fought having an almighty tantrum. Liar liar pants on fire, I thought.

Pay no heed. At 2 normal childen will tantrum. It's a normal and healthy response to their dawning understanding that they don't control everything, can't do everything and not everythin will behave as they want.

The woman sounds like a nightmare and I would just feel sorry for her dh and their child.

The other woman sounds dreadful.

But if someone refers to their child as 'spirited' I too usually assume they#re pretty much allowed to act as they like and the parents expect the world to revolve around them. The word (or phrase) you're looking for is 'like most other toddlers', because that's what your ds sounds like.

Anyone who can refer to a small child as a 'turd' without irony is a) not as mature as she thinks b) not the kind of person whose approval I would be desperate to win. So tbh you can discount her views.

I'll bet its a front your friend is putting on. She probably has melt downs when alone or just with her DH.

I welcomed the tantrum stage with my 2nd because to me it was a sign that she wasn't autistic! She had some epic tantrums, often in public places, there was some judgy tutting but also some encouraging comments from strangers. Not everyone conveniently forgets their own kids tantrums.

her DH does most of the work with their DS.
FWIW if you had looked at me, H and the dcs when out and about, you probably would have seen the same.
What was actually happening is that H felt he o ugh to ‘help’ and step in/be a parent but wouod only do it when we are out if the house. So I always made sure HE did most of the parenting when we were with family etc..
I still did all the parenting at home so about 95% of it.

Re your friend’s judgement. She only has one child. She probably thinks that it’s her parenting methods that are making the difference. That if you were doing x and y like her, your child wouldn’t be having a tantrum. Rooker mistake. More often than not, parents who think they’ve worked it all learnt they haven’t when they have another child and said child isn’t as calm and placid as the first one .
Just be careful not to be as judgement al as she is.

But what you can do is to tell her that ‘yes I know. All children are different and react better to different type of parenting aren’t they?’. Or if she says when we did xxx, just remind her that ‘we are doing things in a different way and it works for us’.
And so on.

If I’ve understood you correctly OP the judgey woman has one child of a mere four years old? It’s early days for both of you and you will look back on this and realise how little bearing today’s tantrums or good behaviour has had on how your children eventually turn out. She might be wise to belt up until her DS is about 30 and she can look back and confirm it all went perfectly. I doubt she’ll be able to. Or she might have another child who is a more volatile character all together and won’t comply. Then she’ll realise that it isn’t her superior parenting. I’ve had 4 children and 3 out of 4 were a nightmare at 2-3 yo. They are all decent law abiding citizens now as far as I can tell

I think staying away from home is always an issue because you're trying to tiptoe around as you're in someone else's house. In that wayanyone would be on edge and over sensitive about their kids. We have four so we try to get people over here instead. She might be a cow, she might just come out with that not meaning to but trying to help in an unhelpful way! I say stay away as much as possible and if she does get into you again simply tell her you're trying and she'll either back off or be a twat and not. As for your dp he just doesn't want to rock the boat but to be honest it's a bit annoying he said that whether you were being or not. Lastly I'd agree with what was said before about the kicking and biting, you and your dp need to stop that. Best of luck OP, you're doing great (I had two quiet , two who were a bit more, I'm, interesting so I know exactly what you're going through!!)

The reasons I say her DH does most of the work is because she (quite openly) tells of how she will not get up with him on a weekend ever and that her DH should do it because she’s doesn’t do morning. She is waited on hand and foot by him when we see her. She apparently also demands that she doesn’t even see DC for at least hour once she is home from work and that he is strictly kept out of her sight whilst she unwinds from dealing with kids all day, and her DH is more than willing to accommodate this. Maybe at home she is more hands on- but from what she has said herself and what I have seen- it doesn’t seem that way. And that’s fine- I’m not judging her parenting style. Her DC is a lovely little boy and is very pleasant and well behaved (although refused to give my kid a hug that he so desperately wanted earlier- but I suppose he thought was a shit so didn’t want to!). I just don’t like the woman. I’ve always been on the fence but I’ve now told DP I’m not going to our friends whilst they are there as it’s unfair for him to expect me to spend time in someone I don’t likes company. I ‘don’t like’ many people and always give people the benefit of the doubt. But she’s not someone I want to be around. A mother who adds to another’s struggles isnt one I wish to associate with.

OP - to be fair, you have judged the other woman. According to you, nobody likes her and people only put up with her because her dh is nice - and also, her dh does most of the work with their child because his dw is "cold." You also say she often tells off her ds for simply being a child. So - you experienced a situation that would have been stressful with or without this woman. Better to experience the embarrassment in front of someone you obviously think is an appallingly bad, uptight parent and human being herself than to experience it in front of someone who is actually nice and has lovely children who never behave like your ds...

I don’t think he’s ‘spirited’ or ‘split personality’ 🤣

I think you have a normal 2 year old. ‘Normal’ is a W I D E range, from so laid back they’re practically horizontal to doesn’t bloody sit down or shut up!

He’s grown up a lot in the last 6 months (probably along with his speech improving) but he’s still not yet 3. It must be bloody frustrating to have very little say in when it’s time to bath, get dressed, eat, have your nappy changed...it’s not surprising they’re in no mood to be compliant and just want to lose their shit a bit so everyone knows they’re not happy about it!

One or two comments you could think she is just ‘making conversation’ and you might have taken the wrong way, but not several and a general ‘attitude’. She sounds like a complete cow. Your DH is like many men, just wants an easy life and doesn’t read the tone. It’s a simpler way to live...until your piss your wife off!🤣

I wouldn’t avoid going if she’s there, that just isolates her DH who probably needs all the support he can get. Just openly roll your eyes at her and perfect the art of a good come back. Don’t let her intimidate you, she’s not all that.

I feel sorry for her DS, hopefully his Dad will start standing up to her a bit.

Why not let dp deal with the tantrums in her company? He's not bothered about his parenting skills being called into question so let him get on with it.
Good idea to take him upstairs to calm down but bad idea to try and get him dressed! In the nicest possible way, are you mad??

I agree the description of him as spirited and split personality to me signalled he’s normally challenging. As in more challenging than a typical 2-3 year old. I also find people use the spirited term as an explanation saying it’s their personality so they can’t do anything about it. He sounds very normal and in the situation it’s completely normal for him to have a tantrum. My earlier comment about thinking of him as a 3 year old is from my crappy week dealing with someone who’s child is too young to understand not to rip up books, tear up game cards and hit continuously because they’re only 3, but they didn’t check their child once.

Her DC is a lovely little boy and is very pleasant and well behaved (although refused to give my kid a hug that he so desperately wanted earlier- but I suppose he thought was a shit so didn’t want to!).

This really isn't a problem imo. Kid doesn't want to hug, so kid doesnt give hug. It's good to teach children that they don't have to be in bodily contact with people they don't want to be and that they can refuse touch.

raven I agree. My lb is very affectionate and likes to give cuddles and kisses when leaving- he never used to be like this it’s quite new- I love it. As a child I dreaded this though. Kisses with uncles you hardly ever see still haunt me to this day!

Some of the posts are hilarious and as judgy as your teacher friend. This child is behaving within normal parameters. This stuff tends to peak at 3 and settle by 4 so just stick in there. Yes of course give him boundaries and respond to the tantrums by walking away when practical. In my experience, there is no one more judging than another parent, Shocking that some medical expert here can diagnose autism, why bother with professionals eh?

Oh I get what you mean op. It's lovely when small kids want to show affection like that! So I do feel for your kid, but I think it's good for the other one to experience saying no to having to give hugs.

God only knows what she would make of my 3.8 yr olds behaviour.

Yes it's embarrassing and extremely stressful to have a challenging child but those of us in the thick of it are trying our best in difficult circumstances.

Who the fuck needs old trouts like her, pointing and sneering at every misdemeanour? I wouldn't see her again.

Dhs friends wife doesn't sound very well behaved.

70sbaubles....I think trying to diagnose autism on this scant information is a little rash

Her DC is a lovely little boy and is very pleasant and well behaved (although refused to give my kid a hug that he so desperately wanted earlier- but I suppose he thought was a shit so didn’t want to!).

I get this with my 2 DDs. DD1 (9) often wants to hug DD2 (6) and DD2 doesn't always want to. DD1 gets upset by this, but we never tell DD2 that she has to hug her sister. Similarly with adult relatives, we don't force her.

It's important for children to know that they have a right to body autonomy and are allowed to refuse to give hugs/kisses if they're uncomfortable with it.

Re autism I'm only extrapolating the bits which ring a bell with me and my first born who has it.
The worrying about what other people thought, the tantrums, generally difficult and headstrong child-caused by an inability to be flexible. I was also embarrassed around other people, other people's children all seemed well behaved whilst I had a live wire.
I then had two more who were 'good' children. I was just suggesting it. My NT children didn't have tantrums, nobody judged them or me because they were 'normal' and acceptably behaved. I was only suggesting it as a possibility. It wasn't meant to be insulting. I remember the sheer hell of visiting people or going on holiday and it was always hard work.